Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:47 pm Posts: 2505 Location: Eastern Europe
No idea what the university or the lab are, but... it may be worth reminding at this point that it is NOT impossible for someone to add a page to a university's domain for a little while. Depends on the university and the fellow, of course. Some times it is not even difficult, or resented.
_________________ Vorba multa - saracia omului.[RO]
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:04 pm Posts: 476 Location: United States
Is there a link for this lab anywhere? There used to be on on that University page, it's not there anymore. I guess I'm trying to highlight this because this cert is used ALL OVER ebay, and now the lab, or any important information on it, is gone from the internet. In fact, if you google it, the top responses are in GO.
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:16 am Posts: 305 Location: Silom, Bangrak, Bangkok
Burapha is the only gem lab here in Chanthaburi. While the seller may be a scumbag, I sympathize with his plight regarding testing options. The lab is still open and operating as usual.
I have used them on occasion when a customer wants corundum tested for beryllium, or if I sell an unusually large or rare stone. The certificate puts the customer at ease that an independent third party has given an identification. It is not the marketing powerhouse that a GRS Swisslab or GIA certificate is, but it is substantially less expensive and I have found them to be 100% accurate.
I doubt you will get any response via email. Likewise, many of the other labs here in Thailand (including the big names) are poor answering mail. With Burapha people tend to walk in the door with the stone- they have no internet business and no other intake facilities other than the two locations in Chanthaburi.
I know they have LIBS but don't have any details on other testing equipment that they have. The word on the street is that they have come under considerable pressure in the past to be more "dealer friendly" but they do everything by the book according to their reputation here in town.
_________________ Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. ~Mark Twain
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:04 pm Posts: 476 Location: United States
davegimchee wrote:
Burapha is the only gem lab here in Chanthaburi. While the seller may be a scumbag, I sympathize with his plight regarding testing options. The lab is still open and operating as usual.
I have used them on occasion when a customer wants corundum tested for beryllium, or if I sell an unusually large or rare stone. The certificate puts the customer at ease that an independent third party has given an identification. It is not the marketing powerhouse that a GRS Swisslab or GIA certificate is, but it is substantially less expensive and I have found them to be 100% accurate.
I doubt you will get any response via email. Likewise, many of the other labs here in Thailand (including the big names) are poor answering mail. With Burapha people tend to walk in the door with the stone- they have no internet business and no other intake facilities other than the two locations in Chanthaburi.
I know they have LIBS but don't have any details on other testing equipment that they have. The word on the street is that they have come under considerable pressure in the past to be more "dealer friendly" but they do everything by the book according to their reputation here in town.
Thank you for that great response. My other question is their ability to detect synthetics, in particular some of the newer ones that are extremely difficult to detect. Also, if they do not have a readily available website, how do you verify the authenticity of a lab report?
What is a LIBS?
Last edited by tudortwo on Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm Posts: 21602 Location: San Francisco
LIBS=Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy.
It's primary use, gemologically, is for detecting beryllium (Be), lithium (Li) and boron (B) in untreated and treated rubies-sapphires, chrysoberyls and beryls.
LIBS is not considered as diagnostic as LA-ICP-MS and SIMS methods but it is still an extremely useful tool. (Wish I had one)
LA-ICP-MS=Laser Ablation Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry
SIMS=Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry
Synthetics are usually identified with microscopic observation coupled with the results of tests done with other standard gemological instrumentation.
Synthetic ruby, sapphire, emerald, spinel, aquamarine, amethyst, alexandrite, opal and misc. hydrothermal quartzes are usually fairly routine IDs for a gemologist, including the newer ones.
Synthetic diamonds usually need additional testing, unless there is still the laser inscription on the girdle, identifying it as synthetic.
Which gem(s) are you specifically referring to that you believe would need additional testing?
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm Posts: 21602 Location: San Francisco
The natural spinel I have encountered has always had several diagnostic inclusions.
If a spinel is very free from inclusions, it would immediately arouse suspicion.
Flux and metallic residue from a crucible are not difficult to detect and identify with an immersion microscope.
Therefore, I think one would not have a problem making the call with microscopic observation.
If one could NOT find anything in the stone (very very unlikely in a natural spinel) a Raman would be helpful for positive ID.
As Dorian said in his post, synthetics can often be identified by microscopic characteristics, and variances in RI, SG, UV, and spectrum.
Separation of natural and synthetic gems is part of the curriculum in every gemological school, and students are taught to do it using standard gemological equipment.
Detecting and identifying treatments is much more of a challenge and in many cases, even with access to sophisticated instruments, interpreting the results of the tests can be open to debate.
In my reading of the various articles, it appears to be the consensus that the traditional gemological methods such as the SG, RI, UV and spectrum testing cannot be used to distinguish flux grown synthetic spinel from a natural spinel because the results are identical, and that only a microscopic investigation might reveal the tell tale signs such as jagged flex residue, metallic flakes and small parallel hollow channels unlike natural red spinels which are often very included with healed fissures consisting of octahedral negative crystals. Raman testing appears to be a foolproof method. As I am not familiar with the equipment a GG or appraiser might own, I’d like to know if every appraiser usually has the capability of doing a Raman test?
A couple of thoughts on the synthetic red spinels. We've actually discussed this somewhere else on the forums?.. but I echo what Barbra and Dorian stated in that first you often do the ID based on the use of regular gemological instruments. There are those times that heavier duty equipment is employed such as Raman.
The results that Michael Krzemnicki came up with using the raman actually can be done using a regular spectrometer and a UV light. I did this over 10 years ago when the red flux grown spinels first appeared. One might even be able to do it with a spectroscope, but careful with looking at any UV close up.
That every appraiser has the capability of doing a Raman test can be answered by asking first, if they have a Raman, which appraisers generally do not. But that does not mean they (or anyone) can't have a test done for them. As Barbra stated it really comes down to the proper interpretation of the Raman readings which is no easy task even for seasoned geo-chemists.
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:16 am Posts: 305 Location: Silom, Bangrak, Bangkok
"Also, if they do not have a readily available website, how do you verify the authenticity of a lab report?"
I am here so if the seller would send you a jpg or scan of the report I would be happy to print it out and walk it into the lab for you. It's not out of my way. I might even be able to get a cell phone number for you if you want to talk to them.
_________________ Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. ~Mark Twain
I have an opinion about this lab, but am very reticent to share it on a forum... I too had questions concerning the validity of this lab. so I went searching...
this is the only relevant piece of information that I found;
in the navigation bar near the top of the page there is a link to check the validity of a certificate number. most of the page will have to be translated, I did not go that far.
I have simply come to the conclusion that if the Gemological report does not come from an internationally acclaimed laboratory, then it is probably in my best interest to pass on the certification. I personally test every gemstone I receive. since my lab has only the basic gemological tools, I rely on my knowledge of common treatments, as certain gem types are more commonly treated than others. currently I am looking into various Geiger counters that I could reasonably incorporate into my practices.
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