January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
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 Post subject: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:31 pm 
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To all,

Ok, question for all of you that have attended or are regulars re: the Tuscon show. While I can't make it this year (undergoing skin cancer treatment and can't handle any sun exposure for three months <nothing bad, caught it all before it turned bad), I did put aside the money and and was all set. So, as sort of a vicarious travel plan. What's the best attack/plan/way to attend Tuscon if you want to see the show and look for good rough and see any of the recommended seminars on equipment, faceting/cabbing learning and what to look out for. So, as sort of a starter set of premises and questions (not ordered):

1) Let's say I put aside US $3K for Rough and US $2K for 'other' (equipment, seminars, use it on more rough, Etc.)
2) Is there really any chance of fake rough there given the amount of experts around? Is it self policing?
3) Should you register ahead of time for any classes/seminars? Do they fill up quickly? If so, where do you sign up? Is there a master site or do all the vendors 'roll their own?" (e.g. Ultra Tech)
4) If you're buying rough, are vendors accommodating to the hobbyist that may only want to buy one or two pieces or is it bulk only?
5) If you're buying rough, what equipment do you usually bring with you and are vendors likely to get angry if you pull out your own scales, scopes, Etc?
6) Do we (GemologyOnline), setup meets, parties or anything like that? I'd love <next year>, to buy everyone here a libation of their choice just as a thanks
7) Here's the big one. Is it considered rude, if you meet one of the experts and they have the time, to ask questions and try and pick their brains? I have my heroes here, from the cutting awards, Etc in faceting. To me it would be like in my youth meeting one of my rock heroes and talking their ears off with questions. Now, I'm old enough to know how to approach and read body language, what I'm trying to say is "do you as one of these possible heroes ever get bored of answering the same questions over and over again?". Hope that makes sense
8) Are there certain venues that are dedicated to one thing over another (i.e. hotel X for seminars, arena Y for rough, Etc.)

My thanks to any responses. While my first trip has been delayed for at least a year, I'd love to envision on how this one would have gone and refine my plans for next year.

Thanks to you all

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Bob Hodges

Faceter: When turned into a zombie, they stumble around crying "roooouuuuggghhhh"


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:15 pm 
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Bob,
Here is my pass at your questions.

1.) Seem like enough to have a great time and get some good stuff. I would reduce my equipment budget because you can identify and see the equipment and the vendor to buy it from, but you can order that any time. The rough you only have the chance to buy at the show. Spend your money on that.

2.) It is not self policing. Every year I see a lot of misidentified and fake rough. Last year it was blue sapphire, Maxi Beryl, Paraiba rough that wasn't (It had no copper), and color change glass being sold as Garnet. A lot of even experienced dealers get taken by these things. Dealers talk and alert each other on such things that they have seen floating around the show, and who has been trying to sell it.

3.) I have never attended any classes or seminars during Tucson, so I can't begin to answer this one.

4.) In the rooms and booths they will accommodate you and let you pick through many of their offerings. Some parcels will be lot only, or pour. The foreign rough dealers vary a lot. Many want to only sell whole lots. They mostly sell to the people who have the booths and rooms. Prices will be very different depending on if you are buying selection or lots.

5.) I bring a rough grading box that gives me consisting lighting when I buy. I also bring a set of small gemological tools that are easy to carry. I don't bother bringing a scale. They are everywhere and I have never had or heard of an issue with crooked scales at the show. In my room I keep more complex equipment like my RAMAN, and my GL spectrometer (for Paraiba). If needed there are people with very complete gam labs I can use if needed. Finally there are a few labs around including GIA that can give full gemology reports with very advanced equipment and knowledgeable staff. Remember it is not only identification you must worry about. Treatment has a big effect on value too.

7.) Yes, we always have a dinner meetup during the show. This year it is Thursday evening at El Charro restaurant which has become a tradition.

8.) Most people will be happy to talk to you about pretty much anything. But the will prioritize people and conversations that lead to profit. They are there to make money.


Bob, Most of the shows are indoor in either the conventions center, hotels (rooms and meeting rooms), or in large tents. I think it is entirely possible to attend Tucson and get no more Sun exposure than you do staying at home.

I hope this was helpful.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:53 pm 
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Steve,

Thanks for the great answers and just hoping for one more piece of advice; to prevent from getting played (and not having time to become an expert is such a short time), what's the best method to prevent from getting rooked by a dealer? Is it proper to make the sale contingent on finding a GIA lab and having it tested before buying (e.g., I've bought many a used motorcycle and I always pay to have it inspected by a service shop before I buy. Never had anyone complain as they get a free inspection they can use for another buyer if I pass)? As said, I'd pay for it (guessing somewhere in the $100-200 hundred cost to have a lab look at it). However, if I'm going to plop down $2K on the deal of a lifetime in "X" rough, I'd like to make sure I'm not getting deceived. I can identify some of the issues/treatments discussed on here (oiling, heating, glass filled...), but I'm sure any competent cheat could catch me easy.

Also, thanks for the heads up that Tuscon might not be out of the question. If this treatment doesn't turn my face into hamburger, I may just buy the biggest sun hat I can find and make the trip. If so, I'll definitely try and look you up and see if I can join for dinner.

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Faceter: When turned into a zombie, they stumble around crying "roooouuuuggghhhh"


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:29 pm 
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Bob,

All of the legitimate dealers I know would let you return anything that was not correctly identified when sold. I suggest that if you are not confident in a stone or dealer just pass. Unfortunately, none of the well known labs including G.I.A. will even look at a piece of rough, let alone charge for an identification. Of course if I am around I will be happy to have a look at anything you have questions about.

Alberto Scarani and the guys from the Italian Gemological Review/ MAGILABS are always at the AGTA show demonstrating their extensive line of high quality Gemological tools and spectroscopes including RAMAN. Alberto is an active member of the Gemology Community. The have always offered to test any stone for free, and will even do a quick screen to be sure that there is copper in a tourmaline to prove it is Paraiba Type.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 3:47 am 
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There's certainly going to be some misrepresented rough but it isn't the majority and you'd have no trouble spending your money on good bets. Some parts of the show are more wild West than others and I'd say that, while your chances of getting snookered there are probably higher, they're also generally more fun with some less sorted stuff and the prices can be lower.
As to whether you'll bother vendors by talking to them, people usually get into this business because they want to talk about rocks. The only general rule is if a customer wants to ask about something they're gonna buy you stop the conversation dead and let them do their thing.

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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:28 pm 
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What the others have said matches my more limited experience at Tucson.

3. With respect to seminars - the ones at the USFG Symposium are free and open to everyone. The AGTA offers seminars that are also free and I believe one can attend even through not registered at the AGTA show (since they are held in a different area of the convention center and I did not see any evidence of badge checking there.) There are other seminars during the AGTA show as well as other events. At least some of them are for fee or members only.
For classes the ones I know about are not free. Also, the USFG usually has a rough shopping tour for a modest fee where someone will take a small group around to reliable rough dealers.

4. Nearly everyone I have seen who has a pile of facet rough laid out on display has allowed me to examine and pick. Note that they may have a higher price for pick than for a random pour. Only once have I run into a dealer who had a minimum 1 kilo purchase. They were also rude and the material was not as good and priced higher than what I found elsewhere. (I did not see them returning the following year.)

6. If you go, definitely try to make it to the GO dinner meet up. I have one minor complaint about it -- the place gets noisy and the situation too crowded to get in conversations with everyone there.

7. Many of the dealers / experts will answer questions. If they aren't too busy they may share tips you didn't know to ask about. I got the impression from a couple that they were protecting their trade secrets and not willing to talk much unless they are selling. And others are just not all that outgoing. Or maybe just tired from the long hours and many days of the show.
Also, while you are checking out rough at a dealer's space, you may meet others there doing the same and end up in conversations with them, sharing experiences and tips. It is always fun to see a name on the badge you recognize from online and finally meet in person.

If you take the shuttles between shows, people there often chat about what they have discovered - either at the shows, or very often, places they like for dinners.

Another thing I learned is that not everyone takes credit cards. I'm one who has never liked to carry much cash and found out on my first trip that many dealers were cash only. Most of the US dealers will do credit / debit / other such forms. But many of those from other countries were cash or business check payment only. With some additional payment forms, that may be changing.

If you go, make sure you have good walking shoes. The number and scale of shows is hard to grasp. I don't know of any one place that covers everything happening and all the shows. For the shows. I use https://www.tucsongemshows.net/coming.html as a starting point.

Also, check the long range forecast before you pack and go. The desert climate can have a pretty good temperature range in one day. It could be warm and sunny or it could be very crisp, especially early in the morning or after sundown, and rain is also possible for that time of year.

Sorry you have to put off your trip a year.

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http://gems.vistagrande.com


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:01 pm 
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Thank you all so much.

If I don't make it (still hoping), would love to see a thread like "Tucson: The Journey" with just short blurbs on what you saw, rough you found, seminars you attended, your "here was the best place for...", and finally, how the meetup went. Even if I don't make it, I can follow along and save more money for next year :)

All the best, and may your flights arrive on time and the weather be wonderful :)

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Faceter: When turned into a zombie, they stumble around crying "roooouuuuggghhhh"


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:44 pm 
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Very sorry to hear about your medical situation, and hope goes well.
XPOPress puts out a very good ezguide.
https://xpopress.com/cityguide/profile/8/tucson-ez-guide
If you visit this page click the view online edition, will provide many useful tools for transversing the city and shows. It has been my experience that all shows will have a potential vendor with unethical practices, each year can bring a quite different atmosphere. I would say that not all of them have this intent, but just do not have the knowledge to know better and are usually in parking lot shows in outer areas of the city. Can be beneficial or a possible pitfall based on experience. I find a nice pen light, loupe and portable handheld dicroscope can eliminate the obvious.
Many of your questions have been answered already.
Suggest that your first year and if week one attending you should focus around the Central Downtown map of the guide.
#5 convention center AGTA (wholesale) 2nd week full blown retail atmosphere.
#18 GJX 1st week and weekend (wholesale) visitor pass can be obtained by a registered vendor here and #5. Lobby access is open to all.
#34 Pueblo open to all and many trust worthy rough vendors.
#17 Quality Inn (Brazilian) large parcel kilo+ pricing vendors and more.
#3 22nd Street vast variety changes every year. Merch, gem rough, tools, etc. Found some good Oregon Sunstone one year. The Colorado Antero group for aqua if still there. Synthetics from Stephen Challener.
Southeast Tucson map
#26 KINO many of the tool people are here or were. A very large indoor and outdoor show for anything gem related.
USFG Old Lapidary Club show is in a very close proximity of the #5 & #3 shows.
Can not help much with talks and seminars as my time is basically focused on business.
Keep in mind if it sounds to good to be true it is probably worth some personal skepticism and some testing.
I have customers that have had their rough identified and reported as specimens by the GIA Lab here in Carlsbad. Money talks and I truthfully do not think much rough warrants a 100-200$ identification added to a most likely high rough cost.
Think of Tucson as a big gem Matrix all flowing outwards from downtown to the outer regions. Buy bulk for $2p/gm from the downtown hubs take it to the outer region shows and sell for $$7-10p/gm. Many people drive in out of Tucson for the shows and the outer region have first and last at your budget.
Many of tooling people offer show discounts as well, you can save some money purchasing at this time. Each will have a requirement of taking or shipping your purchases.

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 Post subject: Re: First Time Visit to Tuscon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:23 pm 
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Ghays,

Thanks so much for the info and concern. The good news they caught it early and it's the good kind that doesn't usually spread beyond bumps and lumps on the face and arms. However, cutting the ones off the arms and then the topical chemo is turning my face into a large piece of ground round/hamburger and I'd probably scare a few people walking around until the healing is done (the Marines never handed out sunscreen <grin>)

All the info you and the rest have provided has me salivating to finally make it to there. The planning map/info is perfect. I also love the recommendation of what to bring. While I can't turn myself into an expert, I can use the tools you mentioned and even own a few and have rough here from known good sources I can practice on to not look like an idiot.

Luckily, I'm not looking for the 'next best thing' in new rough (e.g. when the copper bearing tourmaline came out), I'm sort of the hobbyist looking for deep aqua, raspberry garnets, open-c tourmaline and the rest. That, attending good seminars and finally meeting some of you all face to face are my primary goals. I've had the great luck to exchange forum posts, messages, emails, phone calls and even video chats with quite a few of the people here, the least I can/want to do is buy a round in thanks (and get some drunk and pick their brains for hours <grin>).

Thanks once again Ghays and all of you,

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Faceter: When turned into a zombie, they stumble around crying "roooouuuuggghhhh"


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