It is with great sadness I'd like to announce Dr. Hanneman passed away on December 12, 2020. His legacy will live on forever!
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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:00 am 
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Good advice!
https://rocktumbler.com/blog/rock-and-mineral-clubs/


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:41 am 
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I don't think buying stocks works the way you think it does anymore. I can't give them a share in Disney without opening 9 separate custodial accounts for each of the kids and paying fees for a decade or so until they're old enough. A bar of gold or silver might be a fine investment / emergency fund, and I may go that route.
So back to gems! Humor me while we are on the gemology forum. I am seeing Tanzanite sell for 10x the rough material costs, so that seems like a decent choice. Mahenge also seems to be fetching high prices. I don't mind paying good money for good rough. You have raised some good cautionary advice about selling a colored stone and how it might be hard, especially for someone that doesn't know how and where.


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Do not take this personally, but selling for or fetching is not an actual sold for.

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:10 pm 
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mycombs wrote:
I don't think buying stocks works the way you think it does anymore. I can't give them a share in Disney without opening 9 separate custodial accounts for each of the kids and paying fees for a decade or so until they're old enough. A bar of gold or silver might be a fine investment / emergency fund, and I may go that route.
So back to gems! Humor me while we are on the gemology forum. I am seeing Tanzanite sell for 10x the rough material costs, so that seems like a decent choice. Mahenge also seems to be fetching high prices. I don't mind paying good money for good rough. You have raised some good cautionary advice about selling a colored stone and how it might be hard, especially for someone that doesn't know how and where.



The Tanzanite rough situation is not what I am seeing in the market. For decades I bought Tanzanite rough at the mines in Tanzania, and even co ventured mines. For the last 4 or 5 years I have found that I can buy cut stones in India much cheaper than I can buy the rough to cut them in Tanzania. Plus, I can buy only triple AAA gem qualities, and never have to deal with the lower qualities that are so much more difficult to sell.

How much are you thinking a 5 carat AAA Gem quality wel cut Tanzanite sells for on the wholesale market these days?


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:44 pm 
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How much are you thinking a 5 carat AAA Gem quality well cut Tanzanite sells for on the wholesale market these days?

$300-$350/ct if you buy from an Indian dealer who has been hoarding stock. :wink:

The better question is how much would a 10-12ct. AAA tanzanite rough cost today, if you could find it?


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:02 am 
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Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
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How much are you thinking a 5 carat AAA Gem quality well cut Tanzanite sells for on the wholesale market these days?

$300-$350/ct if you buy from an Indian dealer who has been hoarding stock. :wink:

The better question is how much would a 10-12ct. AAA tanzanite rough cost today, if you could find it?


Considering you cannot legally export rough over 2 grams from Tanzania it is hard to determine.

But let's do some math on the previous post quoting a 10X margine from rough to cut.

If a 10ct AAA Tanzanite is currently wholesaling for $350 per carat, you would need to buy rough that ended up costing $350 for the whole 10 ct stone to make the 10X number.

Assuming a 33% recovery on a nicely proportioned stone you would need a 30ct piece of rough. That would equate to $11.67 per carat or $58.33 per gram rough.

I am not seeing even close to that price in the rough market these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:10 pm 
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I just found a sample piece of rough probably at somewhat more of a retail rather than wholesale price, and what most will only have as an option.
A 37.8ct. piece of rough @ $4700, after cut leaving say a 13ct. stone, sell @ $350ct. making you a whopping $4550. Sorry but that is reality in the rough market today. Finding good quality rough, in the higher end gem categories today is not going to come at relatively cheap sources like gem and mineral clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 pm 
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glhays wrote:
I just found a sample piece of rough probably at somewhat more of a retail rather than wholesale price, and what most will only have as an option.
A 37.8ct. piece of rough @ $4700, after cut leaving say a 13ct. stone, sell @ $350ct. making you a whopping $4550. Sorry but that is reality in the rough market today. Finding good quality rough, in the higher end gem categories today is not going to come at relatively cheap sources like gem and mineral clubs.



Yep, losing money is a long way from a 10X markup.


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:54 pm 
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I have always found Tanzanite to be a stone that breaking even on parcel is even hard. Most decent rough is going to be $50 to $125 per ct. Then you always run the risk of heating that the stone can fracture, or the color may not come out as you hope, so you end up selling for $200 per ct or less.

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:50 pm 
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If you really want to invest, why not go straight to the top with blue sapphire. Rough can be acquired from the usual guys in Tucson or wherever you get your rough. It's not cheap (and you won't be able to get the top material) but the return is quite good if you have a market for it. I really don't think giving your kids a stone is a good investment because you can't really sell stones unless you are a stone seller. The prices aren't obvious or transparent and you need a customer base. I think gold makes more sense any day because there is such a big and systematized market for it and it's quite easy to buy and sell. If a brick is too boring, go with chains. 18k and you can't go wrong in almost any country.

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:09 pm 
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As always Justin, sound advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:24 am 
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Just an opinion: how about choosing a gem variety that is beautiful, 7 and above on MOHs scale, and make the combination of outstanding and unique gem cutting combined with the same quality of metal smithing, and create a jewel that is prized due to its artistic beauty and design as well as for the materials used? Nobody can say that good art doesn't have the capacity to achieve high value. Plus, working with the precious metals and a beautiful hard stone with good color and clarity will last long past most human lifespans.


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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:25 pm 
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That seems way beyond the original posters intent for beginning faceting and cutting stones that can be given as a investment.
Although your idea is not new on an elaborate piece of jewelry or art. You would still need a market at some point to achieve as you stated a substantial return. JMO... Selling a substantial piece is not as easy as one thinks. But if you have the initial funds to invest in such a piece than why not I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Good stones to cut for investments?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:38 pm 
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As mentioned above, investments should have reasonable liquidity.
Privates selling jewelry are usually at a disadvantage well before the horse is out of the gate.


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