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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:00 am 
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TheL wrote:
Oh good thread! Just in time for my first facetron alignment.

So Here is a related question. If one doesn't care about the needle pointing completely vertical, isn't it simpler to just make sure the 45 Adapter is flat against the lap and adjust the Dial Indicator 0 to be where the needle is pointing?


It's basically the same thing. just personal preference.
but with the original hard stop screw which is very loose to begin with,I can understand why you may prefer to adjust the dial 0 rather than the needle. this thing move all the time.
every time you touch it, even slightly...
the problem is that the facetron hardstop (which is inside the head) is not set at 45 degrees (at least not relatively to the protractor)
its set 1-2 degree off,and the final adjustment depend on the hard stop screw,
now you cannot lock it completely as you see in this thread,as it will change the machine alignment, where 45 will not be 45 ,but 46 or 44...
it can be solved easy with some modifications.
can replace the screw,or put a ring or something that will prevent it from turning so loose at that specific height where the protractor set at exact 45 degrees.
8)


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:18 pm 
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glhays wrote:
I actually used this Wixey digital gauge on my old MDR machine as a digtail readout in lue of protractor. Super glued it to the top of the quill.

Zeroing these two settings out on most machines is quite similar. Something that once learnt is something that should be done regularly.


I know this is off topic a bit - but could you share a photo of that? I'm looking at my MDR, and the size of those digital readers -- and trying to see how it could possibly fit.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Can you post an image of your quill 90 degrees to the platen. As I stated in another of your posts I am curious of your quill style. Heres a pic of the gauge. Also the MDR this was retrofitted to I sold a couple years back. I only have the original machine which is early-mid 70's, this old machine I only use for... not much for anything i guess anymore. Been thinking about upgrading the motor on it to variable speed with F/R.
Heres also the link for them on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/F0E64A39-D4CF-4D73-B6AC-02DBDBF3DE23?ingress=2&visitId=3a5f7019-52fc-43c5-b581-a5bb18dc39b2&ref_=ast_bln


Attachments:
File comment: Wixey Digital Gauge with Magnetic base
20200804_123111.jpg
20200804_123111.jpg [ 1.3 MiB | Viewed 197 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:15 pm 
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glhays wrote:
Can you post an image of your quill 90 degrees to the platen.


My brain is all twisted - I can't make heads or tails of your image with regards to how the digital angle reader would measure anything of significance - it looks to me that the point it's mounted on would not rotate about the z-axis at all - just about the Y, if that makes sense.

Anyway, here's the picture of mine with the quill at 90 degrees to the platen.

Attachment:
File comment: 90d to platen - MDR 102
90d_to_platen.PNG
90d_to_platen.PNG [ 992.47 KiB | Viewed 194 times ]


I've been kicking around in my head where I could attach the digital angle finder - I do not use the pitch-lock except when calibrating, so I could find a long matching bolt for the pitch-lock key, and attach it to the top of a 3-4" bolt. That should clear the index pin, and also not bang my mast too bad. It would be co-located near my axis of rotation, and it would also be removable, so that's an extra bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Your quill with the large knob for setting the key looks to be at the 64 index TDC. At best the gauge would only help you calibrate your protractor and to set it at more precise angle than your protractor can based on your Platen, master lap or polish lap. Sorry but I believe I am probably going to make you swim deeper here. The protractor design on your machine is quite accurate for gem cutting, typically you would calibrate with the table adapter inserted and set to 45 or 90 degrees, place down on the lap or platen, then adjust the protractor to the same. Using the wixey you would place your it on the platen, zero it, you now have the wixey set. Place your protractor at 90 degrees, turn the quill to an index where the knob will not be in the way, place the wixey on top of the quill check if it is still zero, if not adjust the hard stop to zero it, then adjust the protractor to 90 degrees. Once all is set you can spin the quill to different positions to check it stays zero if not the quill is probably not concentric meaning it is slightly out of round. If its not extreme, not to worry though nothings perfect. You will find as you gain experience in faceting all different ways to overcome little issues like this.

There is a small flat space just in front of your index gear between the release lever that might be long enough, the wixey I showed you is 2 inches exactly. So if you have that space and its not going to interfere with the index release mechanism you could get a piece of flat thin gauge metal cut it to fit that space, super glue it down with thin CA so as not to create a unlevel surface then the wixey would have a magnetic surface to hold onto and you could always remove so you can still use the protractor as the wixey is going to be in front of it. I am way to bored with covid, I guess I am just rambling on here, hope that helps some. Probably just more confusing to you.

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:13 pm 
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No no - that all makes sense, thanks!

The only reason I really want a digital protractor rather than the one I've got (which has been working fine enough for me, to be honest - I had even put aside the thought of a digital until I stumbled across this post) is because of neck strain due to parallax...

To explain a bit further - Yes, the protractor seems perfectly accurate - and I've calibrated using the table adapter. I did discover during my calibration based on the usfg guide that there is a slight difference between my mast angle and my spindle angle due to a worn Foot. I've already reached out to Tom Moore to machine a new one (AND provide me with a 96 index gear, which will be great because of how limiting 64 is). However - the protractor is just a red line in some clear plastic that hovers over the base plate by a few cm. This means of course, that depending on where my head is at, where the mast is currently positioned, and even where my quill is - front or back on the lap - I may get a slightly different reading. I've dialed this in a bit by putting a sharpie dot on the front of the plastic. this lets me eyeball my alignment by making sure the front of the sharpie dot aligns with the red protractor line... but this requires me to stoop down to a table-eye view most of the time to make sure I'm getting accurate readings.

A digital would let me just glance at the screen - maybe it wouldn't have quite the same fidelity as the analog protractor (or maybe it would, I don't really know) but since my analog protractor is only marked in 1d increments anyway, it couldn't be much worse.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:28 pm 
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Yes exactly on reading the the protractor from different angles. I had similar thoughts and even requested of jon Rolfe on what it would take to digitize my MDR. My experience was, get some experience faceting, if your going to stick with it, keep your machine well maintained and in working order. Then when ready sell it and invest in an upgrade. I found that I gained knowledge of faceting with that old machine style than I might have with the newer machines of the time, or maybe I just found answers to issues of faceting a bit quicker.
And I assume your talking about the brass shims that rides at the base of the mast.

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