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 Post subject: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:28 am 
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I think all mast cutters will enjoy this historical journey


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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 am 
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Thanks for your very interesting contributions !

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:25 pm 
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Justin, very informative as always.
Feels like there are some gaps in content, like the mention of Hoffman but no mention of Henry Graves. I believe there were many early Lapidary Journals of the 40's with gem cutting topics.

Will part II address the influence the cutters of many various regions who came to America had on the as you call the American Faceting Technic? As well as many other contributing factors?

Waiting for part II. I might be premature in my curiosity.

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:54 pm 
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Interesting.

It may be worth researching the influence that the progression of modern diamond cutting had on the development of American faceting in general.

Marcel Tolkowski published his paper on cutting the ideal proportioned diamond in 1919. This then developed to be the standard by which diamonds were cut. Remember during the first half of the 20th century America was the focus of selling diamonds in the World. Huge amounts of diamond advertisement money, and effort was focused in America.

At that time the cutting of colored stones was primarily done in primitive workshops in and around the stone's sources. Or in cutting houses of Europe using very imprecise traditional machines. The faceting style of the American faceters seems to have followed the style of Diamonds, rather than the traditional colored stone styles and methods.

It seems to me that the machines and methods being developed in America were designed to allow people to achieve the style and precision that the American consumer was being trained to expect by the Diamond industry. The center culet style of diamond cutting dominates American cutting style. The rest of the World seem to favor keels, and step cut pavilions.

As was typical for the American culture in most activities the American faceters were not the children of families long in the business who served decades of apprenticeships as was done overseas. They were new to the endeavor of stone cutting. The mast machines with fine toothed indexes, and protractors, made it possible for a person to be quickly trained to cut very precision stones from a simple cutting diagram using the meet point method. This is very much in alignment with the way large factories with big workforces operated in order to get high production from their workers with the least amount of training. It is American culture.

I think the timing and style of American faceting is no coincidence. It is a development of expectations set by the heavy hand of the diamond industry here in America.


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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 pm 
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Here is part 2:


As far as Graves goes, the only documentation I have from them is the pamphlet Fundamental Faceting that is from 1990. I am not sure if there is an earlier version of this booklet but I don't see anything in the guide that offer any other interesting influence that has been mentioned in the videos. I would love to know more though. I'm only looking at books and articles so maybe there is something in the oral tradition or club newsletters that I haven't heard about.

Also let me know if you think I've missed anything crucial in my narrative. This was meant to look at a progression in the approach to cutting and not so much a look at the stylistic influences. That would be a good topic for another video!

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:57 am 
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if the world were as sharing as you, it would be a paradise ...
Thanks !

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:11 pm 
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Still I find that in your beginning you left out the whole reason why there is a American Faceting technic. Like Steve mentioned without the 1850's American diamond cutting, leading into the creation of American lapidary machines. In turn the creation and manufacturing of faceting machines in the early 1900's the need to sell these machines, will require easy to follow instructions for young girls, boys, and women in the American house holds.

Maybe a Where it all started video?

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 12:46 am 
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Oh yes you are right. It wasn't my intention with the video to look at how it all began. I am actually writing a book about that right now. I have a TON of evidence/articles/ patents/machines going back to the late 1800s and the book is going to be amazing. I have a strong concept and the research is filling in all the blanks right now. It's a big story!

Still I think it has very little to do with diamond cutting technology which is nothing like early American faceting machines. It's clear that early American cutters were looking at Immigrant cutters using jamb pegs from London and Germany. Also, I think there is a very strong link to technological innovations happening in the 1850s in London but I'm not quite ready to talk about that publicly.

Brilliant Diamond cutting styles definitely had a super strong influence on the American idea of what makes a stone beautiful and interesting. That is undeniable but on the tech side I think the worlds of cutting diamonds and colored stones are completely unrelated traditions as they have been since they split in the 1500s.

As a side note, I'm planning on doing a six month road trip through America next year to make a full length documentary about the story of American cutting. I just applied for a few grants and am working on the funding right now but I hope to meet everyone in this forum, in one place or another. We are going to be interviewing cutters at lapidary clubs, and looking at old stones and old machines up and down the west and east coast, plus a bit of the midwest and Texas. See you all next year and we will document the entire American story once and for all!

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:55 am 
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Platform machines clearly derive from diamond cutting equipment. Mast machines derive from European jamb pegs traditionally used for colored stones. These separate technical traditions reached a confluence in the USA with the development of hobby lapidary, culminating in meetpoint faceting with the publication of Long & Steele's pattern books in the early 1980s. The requirement for increased accuracy in meetpoint faceting drove the more recent sophistication of faceting machines.


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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:13 am 
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Meet point faceting is that lapidary equivalent of strip mining and poaching. All waste precious natural resources.


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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:04 pm 
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JKP, stumbled across your library video last night and gave it watch. It seems apparent now after watching it you have much of the early American lapidary litature as I have.
There seems to be a gap between 1910 and 1930 that is the transitional period of diamond cutting and the beginning of the American faceting machines.
Wait for it....... Coming soon in the book maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:44 am 
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I’m rereading Al Gilbertsons book on early American diamond cutting, The American Cut looking for clues on the inspiration of diamond cutting on this blank period of American Colored stone cutting, 1890-1920. I’m finding some interesting clues that are more technically oriented than I thought. Henry Morse the father of modern Diamond cutting was the first to consider actual angles used for cutting. Morse know Kunz very well and Kunz also know and documented some early American mast cutters in Rhode Island and Boston. I think the link is buried in there somewhere. My Kunz himself is the link. Though I can’t find a connection to how that influences what was also going on in Southern California where mast machines were also being pioneered in the first decade of 1900.

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:33 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
Meet point faceting is that lapidary equivalent of strip mining and poaching. All waste precious natural resources.


I think that depends on the design you are cutting, not true for many designs. It can also be a function of the machine you are using. If you can very accurately control your depth of cut, then very often it isn't needed to cut to a center point.

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:35 pm 
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Precision Gem wrote:
1bwana1 wrote:
Meet point faceting is that lapidary equivalent of strip mining and poaching. All waste precious natural resources.


I think that depends on the design you are cutting, not true for many designs. It can also be a function of the machine you are using. If you can very accurately control your depth of cut, then very often it isn't needed to cut to a center point.

Does that really matter if you're cutting to a center point on what machine you're using?

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 Post subject: Re: How the American Faceting Technique Developed
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:42 pm 
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glhays wrote:
Precision Gem wrote:
1bwana1 wrote:
Meet point faceting is that lapidary equivalent of strip mining and poaching. All waste precious natural resources.


I think that depends on the design you are cutting, not true for many designs. It can also be a function of the machine you are using. If you can very accurately control your depth of cut, then very often it isn't needed to cut to a center point.

Does that really matter if you're cutting to a center point on what machine you're using?


No, but I said if you can very accurately control the depth of cut, you don't need to cut to a center point.

For example, if you are doing a round stone with say 3 tiers of facets on the pavilion 48, 43, 40 degrees, you don't need to cut the 48 to a center point, and then with each other tier remove more material.

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