January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:03 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:22 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:15 am
Posts: 13
I just read a book Secrets of the Gem Trade. It mention that the color hue consist of the primary hue and secondary hue. I wonder if anyone can show me the difference? Eg. the purplish red ruby vs orangish red ruby vs pinkish red ruby. Assuming the tone and saturation are the same. Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:06 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
Here is a link to an article that may give you an idea of how a gemstone that has already been color graded using the GIA color system. Usually done by a qualified gemologist with the colored gemstone education and experience as well as the tools required.
https://www.gemsociety.org/article/colored-gem-grading-code-meaning/

As well if you do a simple google search with the terms purplish red ruby and your others, the images returned will give you a good visual idea of the differences.
Posting images here to show you the difference would essentially be the same, what camera, phone or device took the pictures and under what lighting environment as well.
Hope that helps some.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:58 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:15 am
Posts: 13
glhays wrote:
Here is a link to an article that may give you an idea of how a gemstone that has already been color graded using the GIA color system. Usually done by a qualified gemologist with the colored gemstone education and experience as well as the tools required.
https://www.gemsociety.org/article/colored-gem-grading-code-meaning/

As well if you do a simple google search with the terms purplish red ruby and your others, the images returned will give you a good visual idea of the differences.
Posting images here to show you the difference would essentially be the same, what camera, phone or device took the pictures and under what lighting environment as well.
Hope that helps some.


Tried to google it before, but the image result literally all over the place. I saw a lot of image result of brownish orangish red ruby as a pigeon blood ruby or purplish ruby.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:30 am 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
Go to the GemeWizard website and read all the material there. Then download the GemeWizard App, learn how to use it, and you will have a very good grasp of the issues, and nomenclature of gemstone color.

http://gemewizard.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
1bwana1 wrote:
Go to the GemeWizard website and read all the material there. Then download the GemeWizard App, learn how to use it, and you will have a very good grasp of the issues, and nomenclature of gemstone color.

http://gemewizard.com/

Excellent advice.
That's what I use. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:32 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
ArtAtMark wrote:
glhays wrote:
Here is a link to an article that may give you an idea of how a gemstone that has already been color graded using the GIA color system. Usually done by a qualified gemologist with the colored gemstone education and experience as well as the tools required.
https://www.gemsociety.org/article/colored-gem-grading-code-meaning/

As well if you do a simple google search with the terms purplish red ruby and your others, the images returned will give you a good visual idea of the differences.
Posting images here to show you the difference would essentially be the same, what camera, phone or device took the pictures and under what lighting environment as well.
Hope that helps some.


Tried to google it before, but the image result literally all over the place. I saw a lot of image result of brownish orangish red ruby as a pigeon blood ruby or purplish ruby.

Yes, why I stated images online will not give you consistent color sampling. As the others suggested the app will be your best choice.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:24 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
Does not appear android version available for the Geme apps.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:12 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
Greg, I run MyGemeWizard Android version on my Samsung Galaxy S21. But, you are correct i couldn't find it in the AppStore just now. Strange.

The App used to be free. But now i see that they are selling it on their website for almost $1,000.

This app is actually put out by Menahem Sevdermish. I am sure you must know him. He and his Son always have a booth at the AGTA in Tucson. Maybe stop by and see what is up.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:21 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
Yes, I too have it on my Samsung. It is a somewhat recent change. I have not had my current phone but less than a year. I also had it on my previous LG, but it just dawned on me that I transfered everything over. I guess I am just rambling on at this point. We actually still use the GIA color grading when needed or at least with appraisals and gem identification. I use the mobile gemewizard for the cutting shop.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:32 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:15 am
Posts: 13
I have downloaded the apps, I dont think it is a great help on imagining the stone in real life. I also spend several days looking and talking with dealers in Thailand jewelry trade center. Correct me if I am wrong, but I conclude that the color is different from one's eye to others' eye. All dealers emphasizing some vague standard such as pigeon blood color instead of purplish red or orangish red. They all pulled out GRS cert stating pigeon blood ruby but the range of color is huge (from orangish red to pinkish red to purplish red).

Right now, I am even more confused than ever. I wonder if there is a generally accepted standard of, let say... the best color for ruby? thx


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:48 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
You could look into getting a used set of the GIA paddles. I have a set. Haven't used it in years. I always use GemeWizard.
IMO, Pigeon's blood is an archaic term which has no place in our industry. It is, at best, speculative. When was the last time you saw a pigeon bleed?
Image
IMO, none of these colors represent fine rubies.

The color of anything can vary, not only between one eye to the next, but as a function of the light source it is being viewed in.
What is the best color for a ruby? Red without modifiers. No purple, no brown, no gray.
Dick Hughes in Seeing Red wrote:
Color

For ruby, the intensity of the red color is the primary factor in determining value. The ideal stone displays an intense, rich crimson without being too light or too dark. Stones which are too dark and garnety in appearance, or too light in color, are less highly valued. The finest rubies display a color similar to that of a red traffic light.

There is a tendency for the market to favor stones of the intense red-red color. Certainly the highest prices are paid for these. But do not overlook the slightly less intense shades. Such gems have a brightness missing in their more saturate brethren and often look better in the low lighting that one typically wears fine jewelry. Like beautiful women, rubies do come in many shades, the preference for which is a matter of personal taste. Ah, but isn’t that what makes life worth living?

Some examples seen here in GIA's ruby quality article.
https://www.gia.edu/ruby-quality-factor

Looking at GemeWizard, Ruby colors would fall into this region:
Image

So, in short, view as many rubies as you can, in person. Simple question are they red? Yes? No?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:20 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
Well you know my little wouldn't hurt a fly, but was in the warehouse the other day and in flew a you know what. She turned to me and said in this innocent little purrrrrrr that sounded just like " you wanna see a pigeon bleed".

Ruby, Pink Sapphire the great Thailand debate. Red is ruby and pink is a pink but call it ruby and it is somehow worth more.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:58 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:04 am
Posts: 257
Location: Idaho
glhays wrote:
Ruby, Pink Sapphire the great Thailand debate. Red is ruby and pink is a pink but call it ruby and it is somehow worth more.


Which it is depends largely on whether you are the buyer or the seller... Or so I have been told.

At a conference I attended in the 1980's where Richard Hughes spoke, he said that the orient was totally at a loss over the western world's obsession of defining the line between ruby and pink sapphire. Meantime, they (some oriental gem centers) had over 26 different names for slight variations in blue...

_________________
Lapidarist by Passion
Goldsmith by Necessity

Facetron x2
Polymetrics OMF
GemCad/GemRay/Gem Cut Studio
Matrix 9/Rhino 5, 6, 7
REVO A (still hanging on...)
B9 Creator Core 5 Series XL
Indutherm MC-15


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:29 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:15 am
Posts: 13
"What is the best color for a ruby? Red without modifiers. No purple, no brown, no gray"

So, how does Red without modifiers should look like? Anyone has an example? Any stone is good


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: color's hue mention in Secrets of the Gem Trade
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
Did you read any of the articles I linked to?
All had examples of fine ruby color.


Attachments:
burma-4_02.jpg
burma-4_02.jpg [ 40.92 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
pala_rubies.jpg
pala_rubies.jpg [ 19.76 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
didi-5_04.jpg
didi-5_04.jpg [ 31.33 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
101593.jpg
101593.jpg [ 52.42 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock