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 Post subject: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:17 am 
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I was going through a chunk of my loose gems yesterday, filing them away. before I file them, I check to make sure they are what they claim.

The LAST thing I want to be known as, is the "hillbilly jeweler" who doesn't know what she's selling :P

I'd much rather be known as the "swanky backwoods gemologist" dealing in exceptional finds, lol.

Anyway, I had been getting a LOT of zircons at auction. reds, blues, browns and one clear. At anywhere from $1 each to $3 each, why not?

However . . . the refractometer is NOT reading them as such. The blues all read 1.78 (sapphire), and the reds, browns and clear stone read as 1.77 with NO BIFRINGENCE!!

Dichroscope read the same.

I DO have a very luscious blue zircon coming that I paid heavily for ($57), so I'm curious what that will read.

The sparkle of all aforemendtioned stones was less than satisfactory, although they all had great clarity. The blues were quite pale but the browns and reds were nicely colored.

The stones were 2ct or less.

Is my refractometer being dumb or are the stones imposters? What about the white zircon? I cannot test hardness on most of the stones as they are so small, but the white and one large brown I could. But the issue is, zircons and garnets have overlapping hardness ratings, so not much point?

I could try selective gravity . . .

If they are indeed garnets, what about the clear stone? I have read that garnet does come in a colorless variety called Leuco, but it's exceptionally rare and expensive, although seems to better fit this colorless stone than "zircon"...

And the light blue ones sapphire? I don't remember the bifringenece, but I believe they showed some. I also have a tiny dark blue sapphire, and they read identical on the RI scale.

I'm beginning to see that most sellers and buyers don't bother testing . . . like the "don't ask don't tell policy" . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:02 pm 
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I would certainly trust a refractometer over what the label was of what you bought. A Raman is of course better. And additionally there are a LOT of synthetic sapphires and rubies out there. Go in any mall store and they will (usually) have a couple really bad quality natural sapphires / rubies and then some really nice lab created stones. Your refractometer will not be able to distinguish those. You will need a microscope to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:22 pm 
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Where does one even start with this?...


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:12 pm 
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Perhaps here...

Test your refractometer on a couple known gems from your collection - a synthetic corundum, and a quartz. Know that it is reading correctly and can be trusted. A normal high zircon (most colors except green, which tests right at the limit of a refractometer) should test OTL.

Going forward, if you get a reading of corundum on a supposed zircon, know that it IS NOT a zircon, no matter what a seller said.

Also, know that a major wholesaler lists a 6 mm (~1.20 ct) blue zircon at around $90, so your chance of getting a larger one for under $5 is pretty slim.

Another good attribute of a zircon is strong double refraction on one axis.

A bit ago I was asked to look at someone's ebay/JTV/HSN gem collection. "Tsavorite", "alexandrite", "natural spinel", "demantoid"... Actually YAG, synthetic corundum, synthetic spinel... The quartzes were "real", but the better quality amethyst was likely synthetic.

BUYER BEWARE. I wouldn't chase "cheap" ebay deals - learn how to identify real gems, and expect to pay a realistic price for them. Most sellers aren't fools, and know what the item they are selling is really worth.

If the oats are really cheap, there is a chance they have already been thru the horse once.

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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:57 am 
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abeck wrote:
Perhaps here...

Test your refractometer on a couple known gems from your collection - a synthetic corundum, and a quartz. Know that it is reading correctly and can be trusted. A normal high zircon (most colors except green, which tests right at the limit of a refractometer) should test OTL.

Going forward, if you get a reading of corundum on a supposed zircon, know that it IS NOT a zircon, no matter what a seller said.

Also, know that a major wholesaler lists a 6 mm (~1.20 ct) blue zircon at around $90, so your chance of getting a larger one for under $5 is pretty slim.

Another good attribute of a zircon is strong double refraction on one axis.

A bit ago I was asked to look at someone's ebay/JTV/HSN gem collection. "Tsavorite", "alexandrite", "natural spinel", "demantoid"... Actually YAG, synthetic corundum, synthetic spinel... The quartzes were "real", but the better quality amethyst was likely synthetic.



BUYER BEWARE. I wouldn't chase "cheap" ebay deals - learn how to identify real gems, and expect to pay a realistic price for them. Most sellers aren't fools, and know what the item they are selling is really worth.

If the oats are really cheap, there is a chance they have already been thru the horse once.


The refractormeter does read true, I have a few citrine, amethyst and several other stones reading 'correct". Hence my confusion with the zircon. I did re-test the blue zircon and I think it's my refractometer fluid affecting the results, but the red zircon were DEFINITELY garnet.

I don't normally buy any stones from ebay OR Etsy (I have a legit gem site) but I did happen upon a killer deal of (15) 6mm rubies for $12.

Why not, right?

Rubies came in and the color instantly threw me- all identical and all fully clear. I figured of course they were glass or crystal, but I tested them anyway. I got a shock when they DID test as REAL RUBIES, although VERY likely a good quality lab grown variety. Hardness was 9, and both the dichroscope and the refractormeter gave true results. Even at $1 per stone, that's a heck of a deal for a lab ruby.


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:25 pm 
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GemmyFarmMom wrote:
abeck wrote:
Perhaps here...

Test your refractometer on a couple known gems from your collection - a synthetic corundum, and a quartz. Know that it is reading correctly and can be trusted. A normal high zircon (most colors except green, which tests right at the limit of a refractometer) should test OTL.

Going forward, if you get a reading of corundum on a supposed zircon, know that it IS NOT a zircon, no matter what a seller said.

Also, know that a major wholesaler lists a 6 mm (~1.20 ct) blue zircon at around $90, so your chance of getting a larger one for under $5 is pretty slim.

Another good attribute of a zircon is strong double refraction on one axis.

A bit ago I was asked to look at someone's ebay/JTV/HSN gem collection. "Tsavorite", "alexandrite", "natural spinel", "demantoid"... Actually YAG, synthetic corundum, synthetic spinel... The quartzes were "real", but the better quality amethyst was likely synthetic.



BUYER BEWARE. I wouldn't chase "cheap" ebay deals - learn how to identify real gems, and expect to pay a realistic price for them. Most sellers aren't fools, and know what the item they are selling is really worth.

If the oats are really cheap, there is a chance they have already been thru the horse once.


The refractormeter does read true, I have a few citrine, amethyst and several other stones reading 'correct". Hence my confusion with the zircon. I did re-test the blue zircon and I think it's my refractometer fluid affecting the results, but the red zircon were DEFINITELY garnet.

I don't normally buy any stones from ebay OR Etsy (I have a legit gem site) but I did happen upon a killer deal of (15) 6mm rubies for $12.

Why not, right?

Rubies came in and the color instantly threw me- all identical and all fully clear. I figured of course they were glass or crystal, but I tested them anyway. I got a shock when they DID test as REAL RUBIES, although VERY likely a good quality lab grown variety. Hardness was 9, and both the dichroscope and the refractormeter gave true results. Even at $1 per stone, that's a heck of a deal for a lab ruby.

What is the website address?

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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:29 am 
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The rubies were an ebay buy, which is also a great site for buying lab created rough VERY cheap. Would be a great way to practice cutting gemstones, lol (not that I'm to that point yet). Actually lots of rough on there, some VERY believable, but not quite.

Despite that seller having 100% positive reviews, I went back to buy more lab rubies and everything had been taken down. My guess is he went out of business. I don't think one negative review would cause him to shut everything down..

I've seen a few of those too on my gem site. Sellers I had bought nice stones from I went back to buy more and everything is gone. Guys are getting desperate to sell their stuff and make a bit of money. I now have 3 sellers trying to talk me into bulk orders for a certain stone I have been shopping for, and stones that normally would sell for $300 are put up for auction with no reserve and selling for next to nothing. Many will take offers for half of what an item is listed for.

From what I understand, everyone is buying gold right now, so gemstones are not selling like they previously were...


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:30 pm 
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GemmyFarmMom wrote:
Despite that seller having 100% positive reviews, I went back to buy more lab rubies and everything had been taken down. My guess is he went out of business. I don't think one negative review would cause him to shut everything down..


I've come across that kind of business before on eBay and still was scammed for it. The way they seem to do it is they build up a reputation for a little while, get a lot of orders in and then all of a sudden, ship out garbage for about a month before closing up and then reopening under a different name and starting the process over again. Unfortunately eBay isn't always a good spot to pick stones up like that.

For what it's worth, Etsy has been pretty good for getting what you actually ordered so far. I haven't had anyone from Etsy send me anything of questionable quality or style. Luckily now I know what to expect so I usually dig into the descriptions pretty far to make sure I'm getting what I want when I'm ordering from there though.

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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:21 pm 
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S. Rautiainen wrote:
GemmyFarmMom wrote:
Despite that seller having 100% positive reviews, I went back to buy more lab rubies and everything had been taken down. My guess is he went out of business. I don't think one negative review would cause him to shut everything down..


I've come across that kind of business before on eBay and still was scammed for it. The way they seem to do it is they build up a reputation for a little while, get a lot of orders in and then all of a sudden, ship out garbage for about a month before closing up and then reopening under a different name and starting the process over again. Unfortunately eBay isn't always a good spot to pick stones up like that.

For what it's worth, Etsy has been pretty good for getting what you actually ordered so far. I haven't had anyone from Etsy send me anything of questionable quality or style. Luckily now I know what to expect so I usually dig into the descriptions pretty far to make sure I'm getting what I want when I'm ordering from there though.



I have run across a few on Etsy that had buyers come back complaining about fake stones, but I personally wouldn't buy gems from either (not high quality at least). Cab type stones yes, but even then I always have to double check the price compared to other sites ;) But they are great for buying settings and getting an idea of pricing and styles and such. The wholesale sites that sell settings won't allow purchasing without a jeweler's license, so that's next on my list. It will be a few years before I open shop, but by that time I hope to have a greater knowledge and skill set :)


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 Post subject: Re: Zircon tests as GARNET and SAPPHIRE?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:45 pm 
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GemmyFarmMom wrote:
The rubies were an ebay buy, which is also a great site for buying lab created rough VERY cheap. Would be a great way to practice cutting gemstones, lol (not that I'm to that point yet). Actually lots of rough on there, some VERY believable, but not quite.

Despite that seller having 100% positive reviews, I went back to buy more lab rubies and everything had been taken down. My guess is he went out of business. I don't think one negative review would cause him to shut everything down..

I've seen a few of those too on my gem site. Sellers I had bought nice stones from I went back to buy more and everything is gone. Guys are getting desperate to sell their stuff and make a bit of money. I now have 3 sellers trying to talk me into bulk orders for a certain stone I have been shopping for, and stones that normally would sell for $300 are put up for auction with no reserve and selling for next to nothing. Many will take offers for half of what an item is listed for.

From what I understand, everyone is buying gold right now, so gemstones are not selling like they previously were...


Earlier you stated this "I don't normally buy any stones from ebay OR Etsy (I have a legit gem site) but I did happen upon a killer deal of (15) 6mm rubies for $12."

What site?

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