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 Post subject: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:28 pm 
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I just bought two sapphires one was cut from the remnant of a cutting project of a Montana Sapphire. The remnant was the most colorless part of the rough, the size is 3.09 CT. The retail value is $250.
The other sapphire I bought was one the seller was trying to get rid of, it came with GIA paper work and retail pricing information. Retails for $2000, Yellow Ceylon Sapphire. I think, I got an amazing deal however I am not sure. I am looking for a pricing index and a possible reason the stones where priced so low.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:10 pm 
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The posted retail values are meaningless.
One has to clearly define the market they are valuing something in.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:29 pm 
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So the value of the sapphire should be based upon the market in which they are going to be sold at? Also when I asked about my sapphires I was told the yellow one was not worth keeping and the montana sapphire because it was the "tail end" end of a project was worth almost next to nothing. That the information on pricing and how they make a price choice is Is protietary information. That even if I pay $300 for A appraisal I would not know how the price was settled on by the business.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:05 pm 
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The answer about value is plain to see in the GIA report.

It clearly says that that 3.85 carat stone is Beryllium Diffusion treated. The color was artificially added to the stone. This means the stone has a very low value, no where near the $2,000 you were quoted as retail value. The value is very low.

The same for colorless sapphire, it has a very low value.

You should ask these questions before you buy.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
The answer about value is plain to see in the GIA report.

It clearly says that that 3.85 carat stone is Beryllium Diffusion treated. The color was artificially added to the stone. This means the stone has a very low value, no where near the $2,000 you were quoted as retail value. The value is very low.

The same for colorless sapphire, it has a very low value.

You should ask these questions before you buy.


I did ask a lot of questions. Was information that the yellow coloring was a standard way to improve sapphire. Also that it's retail price was $2000.00 , based on how major chain was selling the stone. I visited the chain and asked to buy another stone they wanted $2000 for it.
So I understand that stores have markups and these are different then what cost in the market to acquire them.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:37 pm 
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A bit of misinformation. Beryllium diffusion is not an accepted standard way to improve color in corundum.

Perhaps there are some sapphires sold as heat only even though they have been diffused with beryllium, It can be hard to detect this treatment without sophisticated tools in the lab. The devices used to do this are known as LIBS (Laser Induced Breakdown Spectrometer) and LA-ICP-MS (Laser Ablation Inductively Couple Plasma Mass Spectrometer). Most gem labs do not have these tools.


A major chain is selling orangy brown beryllium diffused sapphire? Are you quite sure? Peculiar marketing strategy :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:47 pm 
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Sometimes they have event where they bring in a gemologist and a lot of colored gemstones. The sapphires all come with information on how the are treated. Some come with the GIA reports just like mine. They sell these event gemstone 3 times a year. :twisted:

The yellow was $380 and clear was $80. Did I make a bad deal based on the price inflation related to retail. I bought them based on the retail price.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:58 pm 
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Have to agree with Barbra and Steve here. There are well known industry guides for pricing. Honestly I do not see the amazing deal, the colorless at $250 well okay if what it is claimed to be. But the Yellow-Orange basically orange not yellow. The seller clearly is pricing it as Yellow if the gem cup is the sellers and claiming it to be Ceylon, although was not requested in the report. Sad to see once again.
Your happy with your gems, that truly shines through here, and in the end really all that has greater value.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:44 pm 
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Recognizing quality in gems is not something we are born with.
It is a learned skill.
I often recommend getting a copy of Richard Wise's book,
Secrets of the Gem Trade.

Sometimes you can find a good deal with a used copy on Amazon or eBay. Or, try your local library.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:07 pm 
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The post that flew in under the wire. :smt051
Although I completely misunderstood this thread and what I understood to be the great deal not there. I stand by my if your happy, happy is what happy is.
But if you think about it a little more as what the seller depicts on the retail values being offered and what you paid, still not an amazing deal, the seller got what the stones were worth by an unfounded market value. The GIA report in itself has a value so the seller is actually probably only getting the cost of the stone just to be rid of it or they saw you were very eager to acquire them. You only assume that the hand written $2000 on the gem cup is a retail value or is it just what the seller is using to miss inform the value might be.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:15 pm 
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It has been my observation that the only time a beryllium diffused sapphire comes with a GIA report is when the owner was hoping it would come back as HEAT ONLY, or even better, no evidence of treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
It has been my observation that the only time a beryllium diffused sapphire comes with a GIA report is when the owner was hoping it would come back as HEAT ONLY, or even better, no evidence of treatment.



Exactly. The OP was told that the treatment mentioned on the report was a standard treatment. It absolutely is not. So somewhere in his purchase or diligence it was misrepresented. We don't know how knowledgeable the seller was about these issues either.

What is clear is the OP is clearly out of his depth. As a member of our community we are trying to offer him the best advice we can. That is all we can do.

In this case all of the information was clearly available to the buyer. He just didn't understand it, and those professionals involved didn't clearly explain it. It is the illusion of value that is often presented to buyers that is a problem in this case, and often in the industry in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:04 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
It has been my observation that the only time a beryllium diffused sapphire comes with a GIA report is when the owner was hoping it would come back as HEAT ONLY, or even better, no evidence of treatment.



Exactly. The OP was told that the treatment mentioned on the report was a standard treatment. It absolutely is not. So somewhere in his purchase or diligence it was misrepresented. We don't know how knowledgeable the seller was about these issues either.

What is clear is the OP is clearly out of his depth. As a member of our community we are trying to offer him the best advice we can. That is all we can do.

In this case all of the information was clearly available to the buyer. He just didn't understand it, and those professionals involved didn't clearly explain it. It is the illusion of value that is often presented to buyers that is a problem in this case, and often in the industry in general.


Well, this has been interesting, I thought that something was off with the pricing however I could not find it. So, am I understanding this right that the beryllium diffusion was why the stone was sold at such a low price?
Also, that the retail price is subjected to the pricing method of the original retailer and has nothing to do with the real value of the stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:47 pm 
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Arami wrote:
1. So, am I understanding this right that the beryllium diffusion was why the stone was sold at such a low price?
2. Also, that the retail price is subjected to the pricing method of the original retailer and has nothing to do with the real value of the stone.


1. Yes.
2. Yes. One can legally price a gem as high or as low as they choose. They are only legally obligated to properly represent it.
The $2000 price, as Steve (1bwana1) mentioned, is just a scribble. It means nothing. It was based on nothing. It was a deceptive tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions About Sapphires
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:24 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
Arami wrote:
1. So, am I understanding this right that the beryllium diffusion was why the stone was sold at such a low price?
2. Also, that the retail price is subjected to the pricing method of the original retailer and has nothing to do with the real value of the stone.


1. Yes.
2. Yes. One can legally price a gem as high or as low as they choose. They are only legally obligated to properly represent it.
The $2000 price, as Steve (1bwana1) mentioned, is just a scribble. It means nothing. It was based on nothing. It was a deceptive tactic.


I contacted the seller and told them that I did not like the yellow sapphire and they refunded me for it, I just had to repay for return shipping. I bought the sapphire to uses in one of my personal projects, I am duplicating a ring that I wanted to buy.

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