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 Post subject: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:02 am 
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I was looking to cut/buy a special gift for my wife. We have played pen and paper games for years and I was looking to upgrade her old d20 (20 sided dice). I got the idea to make a gem stone into a dice (lab created of course). Where could I fine a nice fiery colored padparadscha (corundum) that would be big enough for a 16mm (spherical) cut? In order to increase the die's brilliance should I short each side and add extra facets (small of enough to not effect where the dice lands on for rolls, but large enough to create the a beautiful piece of work).

The three main things I have to ask are:
1) Where are slabs/boules of said (16mm+ size available)?
2) How difficult would it be to cut?
3) If its out of reach for new cutter like myself, how or who would be a good person to commission the cut? (cutters that are used to weird things, I guess).

Any and all help is appreciated! (especially if your willing to undertake the challenge and will to be commissioned!)


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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:49 am 
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That'd be fun to take on. Unfortunately I don't think i'm ready for it. I'm sure someone here will give you the advice you're after.

Welcome to the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:04 am 
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Hi and welcome. What a challenge.
Hmm, so far only found split boules at pretty rock and gem cutter, you'd have to ask about dimensions.
A cutter..well depends where you are.
AUS, I'd suggest 'zellij'.
US,..lol quite a few
on an island,...Hans Meevis. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:10 am 
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Might have to use Pad CZ instead. I have a rather sizeable chunk. I think you'd find CZ in a size closer than you would corundum. (?)

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:55 am 
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I think you could find corundum boules large enough if you shopped around a bit. CZ for sure. The challenge with either would be polishing the large flat faces. It would take a while for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:06 am 
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Hi,

Try John Franke at the Facet Shoppe. Don't know if he'd have 'em that size but he's got a big variety of facet rough; certainly worth asking. www.gemcutter.com is his site.

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Hans Durstling
Moncton Canada

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:19 am 
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Neat project! I have seen a GemCad design for various polyhedra before, but I can't remember where. I recall specifically that the icosahedron was included in that collection though, so the design is already published (somewhere) for ease of cutting.

With regard to material: you'll probably need to find a supplier who deals in whole boules, as most of what is out there are split boules. Shouldn't be too difficult though. I haven't cut synthetics in quite a while, but I needed a whole boule a few years back and found one with very little difficulty. If you're not dead-set on corundum, there are other synthetics that can be obtained in a myriad of dimensions (like CZ, as mentioned by another poster). You can also buy hydrothermal corundum, which comes in slab form (rather than corundum by the flame fusion technique, which produces the standard boules). However, these tend to be quite expensive relative to FF. In either case, I would check with Morion. They are one of the "big dogs" in synthetics and carry an extensive inventory:

http://www.morioncompany.com

Good luck!
Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:34 pm 
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What a helpful community! Thanks for all the replies!
I remember that chatham used to sell rough gems, but apparently they don't do that anymore :(
I have looked at the morioncompany and they seem pretty nice (although pricey compared to the 2 other spots that I have managed to find).

I have seen corundum on sites that were around 20mm+ on size, but they were always split (when I emailed someone they told me in order to avoid cracks they split it, otherwise they have to keep it slightly above its melting temperature for several hours, or something like that).

Ill check out gemcad (on their site right now!), it looks extremely useful, especially for this project!

In order to get the corundum like I wanted I may need to custom order something from a lab, preferably one with a good reputation!

I would switch to a different gem, but the padparadscha sapphires are too perfect for her. Ill call around looking for some rough gem, Ill post if I find it! Either way I would still be interested in commissioning a lapidarist!


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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Morioncompany may be the only source I can find, Czochralski pulled can be up to 50mm in diameter and 1000carats in weight, I am just worried about the color, its' described as orange-pink in color, but the photo looks close to the fiery color I am looking for. Here is a color image of a good example, of my target color:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Maybe you could use the technique Hans is using to adhere two halves together? It might look neat and, have more scintillation, with the mirror facet down the middle?


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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Here's a link to gemcad files of various polyhedra, including an isocahedron.

http://www.rockhounds.com/oplc/cd_onlin ... index.html

If you haven't tried it, gemcad, the software that reads those files, has a 30 day trial.

I have a chunk of a synthetic quartz that is just a bit lighter and oranger than what you're looking for. I also have a few unsplit boules of synthetic sapphire, which I got with my used machine I can't recall a large chunk of orange, but I'll double check.


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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:29 pm 
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GreenStrong wrote:
Here's a link to gemcad files of various polyhedra, including an isocahedron.

http://www.rockhounds.com/oplc/cd_onlin ... index.html

If you haven't tried it, gemcad, the software that reads those files, has a 30 day trial.

I have a chunk of a synthetic quartz that is just a bit lighter and oranger than what you're looking for. I also have a few unsplit boules of synthetic sapphire, which I got with my used machine I can't recall a large chunk of orange, but I'll double check.



Aha! That's where it was :D Thanks for posting. Couldn't for the life of me remember where I had seen them...

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:05 pm 
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I would highly recommend Uriah from http://www.morioncompany.com as a supplier of the raw material and to use CZ because of the heft.
What an intriguing idea. A dice that has 20 sides.
I have no experience in games of chance, but I would imagine that some form of indication of the number rolled should be indicated on the faces? 16mm is not very big for number twenty to be shown, or does the dice show a colour indicating the number?
Cutting a twenty sided ball is not difficult, but the "balance weight" would be critical.
That is that all facets are absolutely equal, otherwise the dice would have a slant, which is great if you on the winning side but not when you not....
To explain, I once had to make a set of six clear dice for a friend who was an owner of a private gambling establishment servicing high roller gamblers.
Boy, I made those dice (s?) four times over until they met the balancing machine thingamabob that they use to measure the accuracy.
I made them out of clear green plastic ( which was supplied to me by the customer ) and milled them out on a Taylor- Hobson (sp?) pantograph and then finished them off on a standard milling machine--this was circa 1978.
Of course, that degree of accuracy is not needed when games are played with your wife ( I hope :) but the more accurate, the more random the throw will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Sorry breakeron, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I find the concept very interesting. So I took the liberty of printing out a map and making one out of paper, just to get my head around it--like 3d style.
Image.
So now I would like to ask someone who is comfortable with gem cad, could they maybe give the angles and divisions ?
I have some CZ that I could use to cut it.
I think that it would be very pretty, especially in orange CZ.

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 Post subject: Re: Isohedron Cut (20 sided dice)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:30 pm 
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Hans Meevis wrote:
Sorry breakeron, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I find the concept very interesting. So I took the liberty of printing out a map and making one out of paper, just to get my head around it--like 3d style.
Image.
So now I would like to ask someone who is comfortable with gem cad, could they maybe give the angles and divisions ?
I have some CZ that I could use to cut it.
I think that it would be very pretty, especially in orange CZ.



Here you go:

http://www.rockhounds.com/oplc/cd_onlin ... icosah.gem

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