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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:12 am 
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yes you can do it by hand....and you can still travel across the US by horse and buggy too.If that's what you want to do go for it....but there are gem and mineral clubs that have equipment you can try out for a small sign up fee or even for free


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:27 am 
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In my opinion you would find diamond files a poor and very frustrating method of faceting especially if you are cutting corundum ruby and sapphire). This stuff is hard. Do not expect corundum to cut quickly even with coarse files. You would also have major trouble keeping the rotation and angle consistent with each file stroke and would most probably end up with rounded facets haphazardly arranged on an irregularly shaped stone unless you made some sort of jig - a faceting machine of sorts. I honestly think that faceting in this manner will give you a false impression of what faceting is really like.

I agree that joining a club is an excellent way to get stared. You may find someone that is willing to mentor you on a private machine at a club. I have hooked three people on faceting by doing this. Some clubs offer faceting classes and they are a fine way to get started too.

If none of those options suit you toy may like to look into a device called a TES lap. This may get you started with little outlay. The jig itself looks like it would work satisfactorily as it is similar to the head on the Imahashi that I learned to facet on. The method of cutting is much more similar to faceting on a faceting machine except you manually move the facet head instead of the lap rotation on a with an electric motor. I would dare say the results you will achieve with this device will be much more repeatable and enjoyable as the TES lap is designed for this kind of work.

Just a quick disclaimer - I have never used a TES lap so any information I give you here is my opinion based on the appearance of the device and my previous experience with faceting. I also have no finical stake in the TES lap.

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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:21 am 
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Stairman, thumbs up on the sarcasm lol

ozymandias: thank you for a very honest and thoughtful reply. I am also looking at a dremel with diamond burrs 100.00 is the absolute max I can afford on equipment. As for gem clubs, this itty bitty town has nothing. I would probably have to drive to indianapolis. Was I still in FLorida.....ahhh the possibilities! I like unworked stones and the inexpensive tumbled stones. I'm also not expecting any 'gem quality' corundum. so if I end up with irregular lumps of weird blue and red its not that bad to me. If I get something of notable clarity in a batch then it will go to someone here in indiana that can actually work it into something.

by the way, how do you start out with a 30carat rock and end up with like 5 carat at the end?


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
by the way, how do you start out with a 30carat rock and end up with like 5 carat at the end?


Sorry, can't resist!

1: Buy bad rough.
2: Don't examine the rough for flaws, cracks, or inclusions...Just start cutting.
3: Use a 120 Grit to save time.
4: Start cutting a rectangular barion.
Then decide you really wanted a trilliant.
No, it would look better as a Standard Round Brilliant.
Now it's about a 1/2 carat.


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I'm not familiar with Indiana, but are any of these clubs close?
http://www.rockhounds.com/rockshop/clubs/indiana.shtml


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Gearloose wrote:
Quote:
by the way, how do you start out with a 30carat rock and end up with like 5 carat at the end?


Sorry, can't resist!

1: Buy bad rough.
2: Don't examine the rough for flaws, cracks, or inclusions...Just start cutting.
3: Use a 120 Grit to save time.
4: Start cutting a rectangular barion.
Then decide you really wanted a trilliant.
No, it would look better as a Standard Round Brilliant.
Now it's about a 1/2 carat.


:smt105

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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Gearloose wrote:
Quote:
by the way, how do you start out with a 30carat rock and end up with like 5 carat at the end?


Sorry, can't resist!

1: Buy bad rough.
2: Don't examine the rough for flaws, cracks, or inclusions...Just start cutting.
3: Use a 120 Grit to save time.
4: Start cutting a rectangular barion.
Then decide you really wanted a trilliant.
No, it would look better as a Standard Round Brilliant.
Now it's about a 1/2 carat.


you forgot ...press real hard,break your adhesive, and knock it off the dop three times....I speak from experience...or is it lack thereof


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:32 pm 
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archenstone wrote:
Stairman, thumbs up on the sarcasm lol


glad you understood i was kidding ya!!


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:57 pm 
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lolz you guys. I checked out the link. Muncie would be perfect but it seems like that club is no longer there? Muncie is only 30-40 minutes away. indy is an hour...only been there once. sadly I only have monday and tuesday off for my job, so until that changes, I don't think I'm going to meet the clubs.

So...would a dremel do alright for starting out? I know the only stuff that might work are diamond bits. any idea on what grit I should look for? If I didn't have to worry about certain things with my family (husband going mad, kids sneaking into the garage to mess with running equipment, etc etc) I'd just get a tumbler and try that.

then again, I've always wanted an excuse to buy a dremel. (whistles innocently) I like playing with tools, building stuff, collecting stuff, etc etc.


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:00 pm 
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You can buy diamond-encrusted rotary bits in the various grits from large supply houses like Diamond Pacific. The theory is simple; start with something coarse like 80 or 100, and work down finer, removing the previous scratches. Then figure out a polish. Search the net for gem carving, lots of people doing it.

The bits come in a thousand varieties, from pointy tips to balls etc. Buy a set and grind away.

Or DIY it with diamond powder for a buck a carat and wooden dowels sanded to whatever shape you need.

Either way, use plenty of water, make sure your tool is rated for use with water and is not an electrocution hazard, and protect your lungs and eyes from dust and high-speed flying particles.

You could spend a whack of money at this, and grind away a month of evenings, to end up with very little. I'd strongly, strongly suggest you start with something really soft, and easy. Amber, for example, can be worked with cheap black sandpaper. Anything harder than that... well... you'll figure it out. They did miracles with gems and nothing but bow drills and river sand for abrasive a thousand years ago, but they didn't have anything else to do and didn't have any deadlines lol.

I'd suggest you call in sick and bop down to the local club. Mayhaps you'll get lucky and find out that the nice old guy down the block in your town is a master lapidary, and he's willing to teach you how it goes. Having somebody show you how to do this stuff really flattens out the learning curve.

Or at local shows or rockshops you might find some cheap old used gear; old silicon grinders can be had for peanuts nowadays.

And I'd also add that you might want to rethink the tumbling option, it's a great start in lapidary and a ton of fun, and cheap as chips.

Whatever you do, good luck and have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Using a Dremmel is extremely possible and effective if you are determined enough. I should know- I began on a Dremmel and I am self-taught. I didn't have half the budget you had, either. lol Stick with softer stones though. Even stones as hard as garnet and tourmaline were somewhat tricky to polish on the Dremmel. But corundum can be done with the proper attachments and abrasives. You just might have to experiment.

During my dremmel days I used a metal disk with diamond grit on both faces. That was for cutting and shaping.

I took a felt buff (or a cut-off wheel for flat faces) and attached a self-adhesive disk of 3M diamond abrasive, 40 micron, and did the refinement of the shape. I then made my way down to 9micron.

Polish was cerium on another felt buff. Or, diamond in 14K or 50K on a felt buff.

I used a water tray (larger tupperware container with a cut out for my hands) and kept the stone and the abrasive wet during cutting. Yes, it is terribly messy and a pain to set up if you do it on the kitchen table like I did. haha! It takes a bit of time to complete a rock with a Dremmel, but if you're patient and stick with it it can be done and on a minimal budget!

Here's a rhodolite garnet I cut with my Dremmel. 1.95ct.
https://img3.etsystatic.com/000/0/60876 ... 614775.jpg
https://img2.etsystatic.com/000/0/60876 ... 742654.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:23 am 
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I use a dremel, to. A nice compliment to the arsenal of the lapidary. Mostly for carving/fantasy cuts, though.

Some sintered burrs from China, some wooden sticks, some diamond powder and vaseline will have you on your way.
You mix the diamond powder with the vaseline to make a diamond paste for grinding. Shoe polish also works. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:37 am 
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I have a friend who carves varieties of soapstone and serpentine. The latter can be found in translucent varieties, some approaching jade in appearance, and he produces beautiful work*. (He's a dentist, so drill-like tools like Foredoms and Dremels have a great comfort factor for him-Maybe not always for his patients.)
You can use carbide or diamond burrs, and quite simple things like scotch-brite and felt wheels and points, and obtain a good polish.
I guess it's jewelry, though his works adorn a little display case.

* I have some. When you get your Dremel PM me.


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:50 am 
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cool! Thanks for all the input guys! Its a new job so at least for a few months i cant miss anything buuut tthere may be other options in the mean time hehe

I'm also getting a half sample bag of mixed rough, it will have softer stones I think. It has emerald, amethyst, sapphire, garnet, aquamarine, moonstone, citrine and topaz as possible stones in the mix. those get shipped out today! The dremel might take me a week before ordering. Budgeting and stuff ya know.

on amazon I found a Gyros 40-10470 PowerPro Variable Speed Rotary Tool Kit. its under 50 bucks and seems to have good reviews. It mentions these features
Variable Speed 8,000 to 35,000 RPM
Contents: 85 Accessories, Flexible Shaft, Tool Holder, Cutting Guide and EZ-LiteTM
1/8", 3/32", 1/16", 1/32" Collets Included
5 Year Manufacturers' Warranty
UL Approved

I like the fact it has different speeds and a flexi shaft. Have any of you used a gyros? Do you like them? It would be cheaper than the multi speed dremel and the flexishaft for the dremel brand is a separate item with its own cost. Do you think it would fit the dremel stand?

for grits I have been looking at the 100s 300s and 600s for diamond bits and looking at diamond paste at the 1500, 4000, and 50,000 range. Is that too big a leap? I've seen mention of using the diamond paste with leather scraps for polish. leather scraps are cheap. what do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: fresh off the turnip wagon! (diamond files?)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:30 pm 
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If you want a cheaper thing, micromotors might be something to look at.

Personally I think a dremel is good because the flex shaft can be changed. That's what gets off most of the water and stuff - likely to "die" first.

As for grinding Media.
Since your getting some quite hard stones:
300 & 600 diamond bits.

Diamond paste:
600, 1200, 3000 and 14K should have you on your way.
Albeit I'd suggest making your own, the quality can vary greatly when buying ready mixed.

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