Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
I can't seem to get the right code to post an image here, so I am providing links to photos of a pink tourmaline I bought in Teófilo Otoni, earlier this year.
It has most definitely been treated with some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created. Edited by Admin: Here are the links:
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm Posts: 4091 Location: the Netherlands
Quote:
It has most definitely been treated with some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created.
It has most definitely been treated with some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created.
These claims have been dismissed as bad science. Why do you keep brining up these stale topics?
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
Maybe because I have had thousands of tourmalines pass before me in Teófilo Otoni, and these puppies in the photos are definitely treated and the treatment is the same as those tested as treated elsewhere.
But hey -- if you wanna buy them as natural, that is your business.
If you wanna think that the cookers in Thailand are not experimenting with everything they can get their hands on, that is your business.
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
Tim wrote:
Quote:
It has most definitely been treated with some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created.
Since that bit of writing, I have purchased a stone that was treated by some sort of high-pressure and/or high-temperature process that causes large fissures to open up and let in some sort of material.
The treatment is obvious. I have no idea how it was effected, but it definitely is not anything natural.
I would like to know how the treatment is done.
It is amazing around here how everything that Mr. James points out is considered to be wrong on its face simply because the news comes from him. He may jump the shark and use incorrect terminology and even mortally offend some people, for all I know, but this does not negate the fact that there is a new treatment process out there, regardless of what Mr. Wise and Mr. Hughes have to say.
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm Posts: 21600 Location: San Francisco
It is one thing to suspect treatment and quite another to ANNOUNCE what that treatment is without the proper scientific foundation.
GemologyOnline welcomes the discussion of hypothetical treatments but reserves the right to challenge assertions being made. We have no desire to disseminate incorrect or incomplete information.
Regarding this specific claim about tourmaline being artificially colored as the result "some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created" ........BUSTED!
This is a link to the same report Tim linked to above.
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
It is one thing to suspect treatment and quite another to ANNOUNCE what that treatment is without the proper scientific foundation.
GemologyOnline welcomes the discussion of hypothetical treatments but reserves the right to challenge assertions being made. We have no desire to disseminate incorrect or incomplete information.
Regarding this specific claim about tourmaline being artificially colored as the result "some kind of high-pressure diffusion that forces a metallic compound into the large fissures that are created" ........BUSTED!
This is a link to the same report Tim linked to above.
That is my stone in the photos above. I took the photos. I looked at that thing every which way. It is treated. What is it about people who want to think the cookers are not cooking?
I don't know how it was done, but it sure was not by someone using an eye-dropper and squirting red stuff into a growth tube.
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm Posts: 21600 Location: San Francisco
Evening Tenney. Are you familiar with this study? Although it specifically addresses Cu diffusion in tourmaline, some of the illustrations may be insightful.
I suspect your tourmaline may have been simply heated.
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Evening Tenney. Are you familiar with this study? Although it specifically addresses Cu diffusion in tourmaline, some of the illustrations may be insightful.
Sure, I saw this "article" long ago, and with my particular way of looking at "scientific" articles, right off the bat, I was simply astounded that the introduction included references to discussions on a blog (i.e., Wise's). This is simply not done in scientific writing! The only discussions that one might refer to in a scientific article are those that are conducted at conferences during panel discussions, and that would be iffy at best. To use a blog thread as a reference is akin to using a reference to a conversation in a hotel lobby or such like.
Secondly, the samples were already cut stones. To base a study on stones that had already been cut and polished is next to worthless.
I am astonished at these so-called research studies.
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
You do have a point, Barbra. Figures 32-36 are interesting, but since the tests were done on cut stones and not on rough, it is not possible to know if the rough had been treated in some way before it was cut. The tests should have been performed on slices of rough of known provenance.
And I should also have pointed out that the James newsletters should not have been included as references -- I was skimming too quickly over the text.
Gringa, I, like many, many others, have been reading this dialogue with some interest but keeping quite a distance. As others have already mentioned, much, if not all, of this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past. I have held my tongue until now, but cannot any longer. I really must ask you, as one who portends to be believer in scientific rigor, how you can announce a stone as obviously treated without a whit of proof?
_________________ I just dreamed that I was a butterfly.
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am Posts: 7523 Location: Rome, Italy
Hi,
i jumped in cos i wanna speak about gemology
Gringa Perdida wrote:
Since that bit of writing, I have purchased a stone that was treated by some sort of high-pressure and/or high-temperature process that causes large fissures to open up and let in some sort of material.
Quote:
I don't know how it was done
i see a contraddiction here.
let me explain how you should post about your stone:
Morning,
i've purchased this stone and since i'm dealing with tourmalines on daily basis i think there's something fishy here, here are the pictures. I suspect it's treated but since i have no clue on how that could be done i'll be interested to know your opinions. thank you very much.
you could eventually got some replies containinig guesses at best, no chance, of course to have a treatment identification from ANYONE without having the stone at hand.
We do not love sensationalism here, we try to follow facts. Shouted speculations provided for huge damages in the past and aren't welcome if not followed by evidences. You didn't provide for facts about your stone in your posts. If you're able to disclose the treatment, please do. if not you could submit the stone to more skilled people to do the job and post here the results, we would appreciate it a lot cos we're always interested in new gemological findings. Stay on topic, this is plain and simple, all the other speculations in your post are a waste of bandwith and our time either.
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm Posts: 152 Location: Marion, IL, USA
Let us suppose that the stone in question follows the pattern as shown in the above-mentioned photos in the article linked to above. If so, then at the least, the stone was heated.
If we must wait for the big labs to come out with their proofs, we should refrain from buying suspect stones in the interim.
Sometimes, common sense will be the best guide. Indeed, my common sense and experience are telling me that something fishy is going on. If that is all that can be stated and discussed here in lieu of extremely sophisticated testing, well, that is good to know.
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