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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Bear Williams- SGL wrote:
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Good question, Red Dirt.

The study concludes that Oregon material is NOT artificially diffused. It is a natural and untreated product.

The red color of Oregon feldspar resulted from natural diffusion taking place over millions of years in a volcanic environment.


And just want to clarify... the interaction of the chemistry in it's formation took place in the magmatic stages, but the diffusion of the Ar gases (over millions of years) took place in the alluvial environment.


Thanks for the correction.
Theoretical question:
Wouldn't the argon gas have collected in other non-alluvial environments? Presuming the host rock was not reheated, wouldn't we expect to find Ar as a bi-product of K in all rocks?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:12 pm 
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Hmmm... Makes me wonder if it would be easier to determine where the copper came from by radioisotope in the analysis and then determine if treatment was involved.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:14 pm 
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And exactly how would that be done, gsellis?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Excellent question Barbra,

If it were sitting insitu as a primary deposit and it were surrounded by the granites for these long periods, I would guess that they would/could obtain these from that environment. But doesn't the K give this off as radon and not argon?

From my earlier conversation with Rossman he indicated that they picked up the radioactive gases while alluvial.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Presumably one of the things that this means is, that certain people who have gotten themselves into certain lawsuits over all of this , are going to be in some deep doo doo . Drs. Rossman and Emmett are about as big as guns get.

If you stand up too fast you bump your head :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:00 pm 
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What would happen if they heated the material in an argon atmosphere?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:25 pm 
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I don't know.
Are you suggesting that, if feldspar was heated with argon gas it would absorb it and give false readings?
Hhmmm.

Potassium/argon ratios have been used geologically to date the age of igneous rocks. In a nutshell, potassium is a common element found in many minerals. A small percentage of K is an unstable radioactive isotope with a half life of approx.1.26 billion years. When this isotope of K decays, one of the elements it can transmute into is inert Ar gas. One can measure the percentage of K vs. Ar to date the rock or mineral that contains it.
As I understand it, Ar can be driven away if the host has been subjected to substantial heat.
How is this relative to the red feldspar in our discussion?
The yellow feldspar from the Mongolia/China border contains measurable amounts of Ar gas. The red feldspar with the same chemical markers as the yellow feldspar contains negligible amounts.
Oregon red feldspar contains measurable argon which indicates it has been around for a very very long time!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:

PS. I clicked on the link supplied by Bigfish and couldn't read past the first paragraph. Bonkycat just doesn't get it. She never will. Robert James suspected treatment and tailored his studies to support his suspicions. That's really not acceptible.


Hi Barbra- Thank you again for poviding Dr. Rossman's findings.

In my opinion, Bonkycat gets it quite well. They are 'legends in their own minds' attempting to create reputations at the expense of everyone else including the 'consumer.' It's all about 'them' not the industry. No purists in that group.

They operate under the guise that it's 'all about the consumer' although the 'dixie cup' propoganda, couldn't be further from the truth. Just my lay view. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Hi

It is awfully strange they feel they solved this mystery , well i just reread all those newsletters just to refresh my mind and all his theories are wrong , its not indian oligoclase which he claimed throughout much of them , you cant detect treatment through RI or through immersion ,and its not all mexican yellow turned red and he didnt even have his Raman yet to do these tests he claims solved this mystery .

I went back and research everything and the only thing he had was word of mouth of copper diffusion which the JGGL and DGemA did all the work and research of .Which was 1st presented to us through Jeff Graham who stated he was in touch with JGGL and DGemA who was doing research from what i can find in 2007 , so RJ found nothing and was wrong with this proof and facts on how to identify these stones which Dr Rossman now states .

So if consumers feel he has done so much for them , hope they will be there to help pay his legal fees , because he has stated all the AND/LAB material out there was from MEXICO .
He received this info from both Oregon mine owners who for years have been saying something isnt right with these stones , and lisa who for 6 years bugged him , but the light bulb only went on when he found out someone else did the work that he could claim as his own and be the consumers hero . :roll:

Anyone can research this info and see where it leads to , just like i did !!!


To clarify my post ,
it seems it took RJ 6 years to figure out something was up , and lisa complaining was a few years :lol: before his old geezer rule saw the light and it was the only thing in my post she could find fault with


Last edited by dragonstek on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Quote:
and lisa who for 6 years bugged him


Does anyone know how long the ISG has been an online school?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Bear Williams- SGL wrote:
Excellent question Barbra,

If it were sitting insitu as a primary deposit and it were surrounded by the granites for these long periods, I would guess that they would/could obtain these from that environment. But doesn't the K give this off as radon and not argon?.


Radon is a result of radioactive decay of Uranium and can't come from potassium. Also, any samples to be tested for daughter isotope ratios must be taken from rocks know to be uncontaminated by contact with suspect soil, water or other environmental factors.

Richard Davies


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Bigfish wrote:
Quote:
and lisa who for 6 years bugged him


Does anyone know how long the ISG has been an online school?


I believe RJ started the school in 2004, but don't quote me on that 8) . I received my RG in June 2005.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:04 pm 
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All,

Just had a long conversation with Dr. Rossman. He has read Barbra's summary and though he speaks more cautiously, he confirmed that the summary accurately reflects his conclusions.

He makes the further point that the only reliable tests for both origin and treatment of andesine are destructive.

P.S. Not that I doubted you Barbra, but when I am researching for a possible post I always try to talk directly to the source rather than relying on secondary sources and I was very curious to find out if Dr. Rossman was a GO aficionado. He apparently is!

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Last edited by Richard W. Wise on Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Hi

Bigfish

2003

have a check on that caribean school :roll:

and it sounds very similar to the International Gem Society IGS , which has been an online school since

Donald Clark, CSM IMG, founded the International Gem Society in 1998. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:15 pm 
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G4Lab wrote:
are going to be in some deep doo doo . :

I don't think completely, because if I recall correctly, two of the big complaints were about the Olympic stones which were from Tibet and natural in color. From Barbra's first post, Dr. Rossman still states that Tibet's gemstones are still under suspicion since his examples have the same chemical structure as the Mongolian material. He also still states the only known natural color red is from Oregon. Even if some of the previous methods for determing that were flawed.

added:
And darn it all, the primary focus is still the red. I think green is much prettier than red and am still curious why some turn green rather than red if the same process is used. Or is it? I would be happy to donate a couple of my 8x6 green ones to him if that is all he needs/wants :)


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