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 Post subject: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:49 am
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Location: Sun City Center, FL & Missouri Ozarks
Hello folks,

I am a burgeoning (though more times than not, bludgeoning) facetor. I've been learning on the club's Raytech-Shaw machines, but am considering the purchase a mast type machine.

At first I was very confused about machines with masts opposite the user's dominant hand. After much searching of mainly this forum, it seems that the moving of the faceting head with the non-dominant hand is not a big deal, and in fact, preferred by many.

However, in trying to get my head around this, I was faced with another dilemma...to control the faceting head, do I hold the quill/dop (it appears some folks grip the quill, while others grip the dop, closer to the stone), or do I grip the actual stone? Very little info out there, other than a passing comment here & there.

Also which hand (I'm just guessing here because I couldn't find any mention)...I suppose if using the mast-side hand, one could grip the quill, or by moving the hand lower, grip the stone.

If using the non-mast-side hand, gripping the quill seems like your hand would be blocking much of the stone from view. But if gripping the stone, you would have the spinning lap nut to keep your fingers away from. :?

So, is there a generally more accepted method? Are there technical advantages to one over the other?

Sorry for the long-winded, newbie question...

Mike - :?: :?: :?: - Biondo


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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:25 am 
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Well, let me be first Mike.
I use a Facetron, with mast on right side, but I grip the stone, and dop tip with left hand..
Thumb, second finger for stone, index finger on dop.
I feel every little bloody fracture this way, and I'm sure I've saved a few "fly-away" stones, over the years.
Barry.


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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:52 am 
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Location: Pine City, NY and Dothan, AL
I am right-handed, and use a machine with the mast on the left. I hold the stone, never the quill, with my right hand. If the stone is very small, I may grip the dop close to the stone. Not hitting your fingers against the center nut is the least of the motor skills you need.


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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:58 am 
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I do the same thing as Al--grip the stone when you can, as close to the stone as possible when you can't. And ditto on the "mast is not on my dominant-hand side".

You need to look at the stone a lot when you're cutting, but not really while it's touching the lap--that's when you listen and feel. You can't see the facet/lap interface when you're holding the stone with either hand, so in that respect, it doesn't really matter which hand you use ;)

--Eric

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Silversmith, faceter, tinker, geek
Select Gem LLP
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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:09 pm 
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Hmm. While I'm actively removing material, I have my fingers on the stone itself. There's good tactile feedback, especially for hitting cleavage, chipping the stone, cracks, etc., and you get much finer control of pressure. Plus, that way you put way less strain on the adhesive joint between the stone and the dop.

That being said, once I'm done removing most of the material, like down to the nudging meetpoint stage or finer, I switch to holding the quill (I actually just hold the little handle-thing on my UT), esp. for prepolish and polish.


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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:49 am
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Location: Sun City Center, FL & Missouri Ozarks
Just wanted to take a moment to say thanks for all the input...much appreciated!

And special thanks to Qld Barry for being the first...I was beginning to wonder if I was posting in the right forum. I was, at first, leaning towards the Lapidary: Colored Stones forum since there were quite a few machine-y type questions there, but settled on the Beginners Only because by god I'm a beginner, and proud of it!!! :D

As a result of a very recent birthday, I scored both Tom Herbst's "Amateur Gemstone Faceting" and Jeff Graham's "Learn how to facet the right Way" and lo & behold both authors recommend stone holding. If my birthday was a few days earlier I wouldn't have had to bother you guys! #-o

Thanks again for the input...

Mike - depending how I hold the stone...facetor or manicurist - Biondo :P


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 Post subject: Re: Be ye a quill/dop holder or a stone holder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:44 pm 
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Interesting question and responses.

I have two machines, a Gemaster II and and UT V5. Previously owned an Alpha Torus.

With the Gemmaster II I hold the quill like a pencil. With the UT, since the quill is so short this isn't practical and I use that handle. I found the knurled nob to be a bit slippery so I used some rubber coating paint and dipped it a few times, so now it's rubber coated and much less slippery. Both machines are right handed, and am I.

Over the past 2000+ stones I have had a few come off the top while cutting, and most times this has happened while holding the stone, not the quill. I think holding the stone and and sweeping it over the lap causes more load on the stone due to the mass of the quill, especially on the GM II due to the inertia of the quill, than holding the quill. If you cut very very large stones, and are using the ripple lap, than the opposite may be true.

I find holding the quill on the GMII like a pencil in my right hand to be the most comfortable and natural. The UT handle thing makes you place your arm up with your elbow up higher than your hand. This is a bit un comfortable and your arm blocks the digital read out.

I know right handed people who have purchased left handed machines. I'm thinking it's all a matter of what you start out on.

As you can see, cutters can't seem to agree on much, and everyone has their own way of doing things. No right or wrong, just what works for you.

I think if you posted on the Lapidary colored stone area, you would get a lot more attention.

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