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 Post subject: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Hi All,

I have just completed my GEM-A foundation course in Singapore :D I have also learnt most of the basic equipments like Refractormeter, dichroscope, polariscope, loupe, microscope etc...

Can anyone advise me what is the next advance stuff I should go into ? I am very interested in knowing more on Heat treated corundum and their detection apart from using the loupe and microscope to detect the usual tell tail signs of a heated corundum such as broken rutile etc ...

Your advise would be greatly appreciated :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:54 pm 
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marlins9990 wrote:
Your advise would be greatly appreciated :wink:

Get lots of money. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Correct me (anyone) if I am wrong, but I have been taught microscopic observation IS perhaps the best way to determine heat treatment in corundum.

Of course if one wishes to purchase advanced spectrographic instruments and then invest the time to properly interpret their data, FTIR can provide reliable results:
A Contibution to Understanding the Infrared Spectra of Rubies from Mong Hsu, Myanmar
[pdfview]http://www.gemologyonline.com/AGL_Infrared_Spectra.pdf[/pdfview]


or, if your instrument of choice is Raman-Microspectrometry (not a Gemmo-Raman), this might be an enlightening article:

How to get the blues out of the Pink: Detection of low-Temperature treatment of pink sapphire
[pdfview]http://www.ssef.ch/fileadmin/Documents/PDF/650_Presentations/HK2010March_PinkSapphire.pdf[/pdfview]


or, if perhaps it is heating with light element diffusion you wish to master:

Perspectives of LIBS in gemstone testing: Analysis of light elements such as beryllium, boron, lithium
[pdfview]http://www.ssef.ch/uploads/media/2007_LIBS_GITposter_small.pdf[/pdfview]

And as Dr. Hanneman pointed out, all this can be yours for around $100,000+


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:36 am 
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Hi,

The articles has been very informative ! Thanks ! Ok. If I am to go a little further, what is the next equipment that I should look into ? I am a little confuse with the Raman spectrography, FTIR. I saw them selling in http://www.cigem.ca/research-technology gem spectrometer, raman.

Anyone can provide me a website that I can go and purchase such stuff ? Thanks !!


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:30 pm 
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If you are interested in purchasing a reliable Raman which was developed specifically for gemological use, may I suggest:
The GemmoRaman

As with any tool, one must define what they intend to do with it. What are you hoping to discover with your advanced spectrographic instrumentation.?


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Quote:
As with any tool, one must define what they intend to do with it. What are you hoping to discover with your advanced spectrographic instrumentation.?


Thanks :) I need the equipments to further my knowledge in gemology, like able to tell a treated jaideite, analyse a heated corundum...

But what is the difference and usage between a FTIR and Raman. I have seen the Raman website and is interested in that equipment...


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:00 pm 
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FTIR will separate natural jade from polymer impregnated jade, as will the GemmoRaman.
Infrared Spectroscopy In Gemstone Testing

and GemmoRaman:
Jade - Identifying jade type and possible polymer impregnation


And, review the articles I posted above.
Again, heat treatment in corundum can most easily be detected with microscopic observation.


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Great. Thanks for the advise :) ok, may I say both serve about the same purpose ? If I am to get either one of this, which one would you advise me to buy and learnt first.


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Quote:
may I say both serve about the same purpose ?


Absolutely NOT!!!!
Hold your horses!
That's the point I'm trying to make with all the articles I've posted. I'll see if Alberto or Mikko can weigh in on this.


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:37 am 
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OK, I think your path after foundation should be pretty straightforward... go for FGA :D

I really don't think there is a shortcut for skipping it and jump directly for purchasing test equipment. And after that... before even thinking in which order to purchase, we would suggest to go a little bit back and start for spotting spectroscopy-related articles published during the last 15 years. Today this is extremely easy and, even more importantly, free... for example all the G&G issues has been made available free of charge at the GIA website. All the information needed to get started are right there, one just needs to revisit the articles and read again the sections which were probably skipped back then.

We are trying our best in order to spread the message that many of the so called "advanced" instruments, such as UV-Vis-NIR spectrometer, Raman spectrometer, FTIR-spectrometer or fluorescence microscope should not be considered so advanced anymore... all the major labs use them on daily basis and they should be called simply as spectroscopic instruments. We are beginning to see interest from those providing gemological education to incorporate these in to their syllabus... but naturally it will take some time for this transition to actually happen.

None of these instruments can really do the job of another, and actually major labs do utilize a bunch of more tools for being able to test for everything... These include for example confocal micro-Raman, XRF, mass spectrometers, LIBS-spectrometers, photoluminescence spectrometers, electron microscopes, X-ray tomography etc...

Still, investing in your education should remain the #1 priority right now, so please take my advice and go for the Diploma course.

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GemmoRaman GemmoFtir GemmoSphere


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Perfect answer Mikko!


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 Post subject: Re: What is next after the basic ?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:35 am 
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I second Mikko on this one! You should invest in your education first, get a diploma in a certain field. Stick to your specific field and start self-study along.


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