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 Post subject: Afghanistan Gems off the Market
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:42 am 
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I wanted to get a few Gems out here, nothing too crazy. Mostly to make some presents for people back home. I seen only one decent dealer out here, who comes straight too you telling you its an African Emerald or is glass (they called it plasic). He does have certified diamonds but never heard of the place in Kabul that grades them. I am looking at some Tanzanite, Tourmaline, Aquamarine, and some star sapphire/rubies. Anyone have any tips on buying these besides trying to see if they are real or not with some tool. It's too late in my tour to get tool. I seen where most people say you can't go wrong with Tourmaline and Aquamarine since it is largely produced here. I know he had some sapphires and topaz as well that looked nice. Also Alexandrite, which I know is pricey. Anyone have any suggestions on what to look for when buying with me only really having a flashlight to use? I know I will probably get ripped off, but I don't want to get too bad here. They look pretty decent, and like I said the ones with bubbles in I seen, the dealer said was glass.


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 Post subject: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:03 am 
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Sorry, but I think my last post never did get posted. Not too sure if there is a wait time or if I just messed something up.

I want to get a few gems out here, and the dealer I have here has been pretty straight forward with alot. Stating this gem is African or this is glass. He has alot of Tourmaline, Aquamarine, Sapphires, Star and Ruby Sapphires, Tarminite, Alexandrite, and Rubies....I know that you need the tools to look at these to be precise, but I only have a short time left and have a flashlight to use. Does anyone have any info other than what I read on here that can help me out or have experience in buying out here? There are no bubbles in the pieces I want, and he did say to send them home and let him know, but honestly I don't have the time left to do so and get them back if they are fake.

Also the Lapis that they have out here, got a few smaller pieces, maybe 3 lbs each. Is there somewhere that buys these, or do I go to a shop and ask there. These here I just got to see what they are worth really and probably sale.

I am think since Aquamarin and Tourmaline are all over out here, that they are the safest to go with.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:05 am 
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Any information or guidance would be appreciated on this. If I had more time being deployed to research I would, but I was hoping someone would be knowledgeable on the area.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:17 am 
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JFINDISH wrote:
Any information or guidance would be appreciated on this. If I had more time being deployed to research I would, but I was hoping someone would be knowledgeable on the area.
Realizing you have a diminishing timeline to work with, it is doubtful that one would be successful in your situation. The wisdom you seek takes years to develop AFTER you've reviewed thousands and thousands of roughs and cut stones. I would suggest reviewing all the previous posts by servicemen or women and contractors that have been working in Afghanistan and other remote locations.

Most appeared so confident that "their guy" was not taking advantage of them. When, in fact, their complete existence is based on finding another uneducated buyer.

As a last resort, with the understanding you are not educated in gems, gem rough, etc, could have a look here to see if it may be a little bit helpful.
http://gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=16622

*in my opinion, you would be better off buying something nice (that can be proven legitimate) on your return. And this is coming from someone who has been in the gem trade since 1981 and facets gemstones as a profession.

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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:10 am 
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Thank you, I appreciate the advise and will wait till I return to get something nice. I did see some diamonds here that were cetified from Kabul in Afghanistan, and if I can get a photo of it, I will post it on here to see if anyone has any clue on this certification and if I can trust it or not. Thank you again.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Diamonds are the most controlled market in the world.
Buy them at home. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:28 am 
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Thank you all for the help and the messages. I appreciate it. Those machines that check how hard a gem is, are they pretty accurate? One of the guys out here bought one that labels different gems found, I know we put it up on the glass and it read right. Then we used it on some of the stones here and it was reading correct, I just didn't know if there was any flaws in checking that way. Thanks again for all the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:03 am 
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I've never seen a device that reads "hardness".
Are you sure that's what it is doing?
I suspect you are talking about a reflectometer.

An instrument is only as reliable as the person interpreting its results.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:36 pm 
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I am not too sure, he told me its a Presidium Duo Tester for Gems and Diamonds. I know it had some stick looking thing to it, and something to do with heat I believe. I am guessing it works since this was a civilian worker spending a fortune there. Well atleast to me, I would say. I am not in it for money, but more of getting something memorable for the Mrs to wear from out here. I will try to post a pic off my IPHONE here.


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File comment: Some novelties I decided to buy. I know there are 2 blue topaz, 1 pink topaz, 1 star ruby, 1 peridot, 1 tanzanite, and the dark looking one is a tourmaline from out here in Afghanistan. I will try to get better pics.
stones.jpg
stones.jpg [ 45.21 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:05 pm 
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I don't know about others, but the only thing that I would ever consider using a Presidium Tester for is checking melee diamonds in antique settings. I would never, ever use one as my instrument of choice for IDing coloured stones.

For a start, it won't distinguish between synthetic and natural - the closer you go to source the more likely you are to find synthetics. Synthetic star stones are common as well as faceted stones.

It also won't tell you anything about treatments - rubies can be filled with glass, many stones can be irradiated to change the colour.

The best you can hope is that it will stop you buying glass.

To be honest, if I were you, I would treat buying gems the way you would betting on a horse. Only spend money you are happy to lose, expect to buy a lot of duds and celebrate if you happen to win once in a while.

Whilst none of us here will ID stones through photos, and especially not unclear photos, there are a few things that seem 'off' to me in your picture I'm afraid. Be aware that most blue topaz has been 'nuked' - natural blue topaz is uncommon. Pink topaz is generally a very pale pink (and often the result of heating yellow topaz) - deep pink or red natural topaz is seriously expensive stuff and very rare.

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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:05 am 
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GemPyrate is right, a Duotester won't tell you if it's a natural or a synthetic. She's also right about the Topaz shots.

Emerald, Aquamarine, Ruby, Sapphire and Alexandrite all have synthetic counterparts. Tourmaline, despite what you may have read elsewhere online, has not been, at least not in any sizable gem quality form (a few examples of a couple of mm's exist). If I were a complete novice and wasn't looking to gamble large amounts of money on Afghani stones, I'd be looking at the very pretty bright blue, green and pink tourmaline that Afghanistan produces.

Here is an example of the blues / greens:http://www.minedirect.com/Stoned/4.html.

Tourmaline is doubly refractive. You might want to read this thread about a method called "Visual Optics" which can indicate to you whether a stone is doubly refractive or singly refractive (glass is singly refractive for example): http://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3424. Note that there is a synthetic quartz that is also doubly refractive that is similar in colour to the Afghani "pool blue" tourmaline and that's also doubly refractive.

While I would seriously think twice about buying while there, if you absolutely don't want to leave without some sort of goodies in your pocket, you are probably less likely to be taken for a ride on tourmaline than the other stones. There are pictures of a very common type of inclusion found in tourmaline on The Gemology Project tourmaline page (left sidebar for the link to the Gemology Project). Synthetic quartz won't have these types of inclusions.


Good luck and don't spend more than you are willing to lose. Stay away from the Alexandrite. If it changes colour from an amethyst purple to a greyish blue, it's synthetic colour change sapphire anyways, I'd guess that's probably what they have in hand. Egypt is awash with "Alexandrite from Alexandria" which is exactly this same material.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:07 am 
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Agree with africanuck that tourmaline is the way to go. They are a wonderful species and lots of different colours and types. I would try and get really expert on those rather than playing Russian roulette with the emeralds, rubies etc.

Remember that the Afghans have been trading in gems for thousands of years and know what they have got, they also have no issues with getting the really good stuff to people in the trade who are paying the right prices. They are not going to damage their long-term relationships by going elsewhere for a one-off sale.

They do not NEED to sell to you guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:32 am 
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:( Over the years, several military personnel have brought me gems to identify which were purchased abroad.
Most stones were not properly represented. Those that were could have been purchased in the United States, often for far less money.
Just sayin'


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:25 am 
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gempyrate wrote:
Agree with africanuck that tourmaline is the way to go. They are a wonderful species and lots of different colours and types. I would try and get really expert on those rather than playing Russian roulette with the emeralds, rubies etc.

Remember that the Afghans have been trading in gems for thousands of years and know what they have got, they also have no issues with getting the really good stuff to people in the trade who are paying the right prices. They are not going to damage their long-term relationships by going elsewhere for a one-off sale.

They do not NEED to sell to you guys.


Very true. I have a casual acquaintance who was there with the British Council. One of the very first people he met when he first set foot in the country was a buyer for Cartier.


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 Post subject: Re: Afghanistan Gems
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:29 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
:( Over the years, several military personnel have brought me gems to identify which were purchased abroad.
Most stones were not properly represented. Those that were could have been purchased in the United States, often for far less money.
Just sayin'


That's probably also true for gems bought while in a Port of Call for cruise ships or pretty much any market where they rely on tourism rather than steady repeat business. They know that by the time the customer realizes they've not bought what they thought they did, they're several thousand miles away. :(


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