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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:23 am 
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hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaa
sorry Tim and Alberto i guess u r right. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25 am 
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Alberto over here what they do is simply dip it in oil for 3 to 4 hours. No vaccum. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:37 am 
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in that case oil should be far easier to remove, guess immersion in acetone could work, but, again i don't know REAL methods, maybe an emerald expert around here could drop a clue........

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alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Alberto, who r the emerald experts on thr forum. I could learn so much.
Can u name a few, so that i can read there past threads.


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:58 am 
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using oil in emerald is very common practice, even after the mining they put rough emeralds in plastic bag with oil so it prevent abrasion. i have never tried to remove the oil but as Alberto said a right oil solvent could remove them.

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:28 am 
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Emeralds have been oiled for a very long time, I would not worry about it, just disclose as oiled and few will think much of it.
You can likely get your answers of value far easier for yourself than in asking around online just by paying attention to what others are paying in the market. Just don't get in a hurry to buy, loiter and chat a lot while paying attention to the amount of cash and stones changing hands.
Buying rough is far more difficult to learn than buying faceting gems because essentially when you buy rough you are buying the faceted stone simply before it is cut. Expert buyers of rough already know the shape and approximate carat weight of a stone or stones located inside a piece of rough and have figured its value accordingly.
To be a rough buyer first you must be an expert gem dealer in faceted and cabbed gems. After that you need to learn how to see what is inside the rough. It will be best to also become an experienced stone cutter before you start buying rough in order to give you some experience in looking inside a rough stone.
Once you have adequate experience in both gem dealing and gem cutting then you will have a much better chance to make a good buy on rough. Best regards, Lee

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:16 am 
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Thank u Lee,
i was working on the presumption of 70% waste is generally what i should do the calculation on.


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:53 am 
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hachiko wrote:
Thank u Lee,
i was working on the presumption of 70% waste is generally what i should do the calculation on.
hachiko,
70% waste would be very good, if you were experienced with many years working with rough. But just starting out, you should expect around 90%. As your skills increase, so will your buying opportunities and your ability to select roughs with better ratios.

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As Lee Little stated:
Buying rough is far more difficult to learn than buying faceting gems because essentially when you buy rough you are buying the faceted stone simply before it is cut. Expert buyers of rough already know the shape and approximate carat weight of a stone or stones located inside a piece of rough and have figured its value accordingly
Once you have come to understand what he has stated, then working the rough market will become easier.

hachiko, if it was easy, then everyone would already be doing it. There will be no escaping the tough lessons you will learn along the way. Knowing this ahead of time will not make them any more pleasant, but at least one can work to be prepared.

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:56 am 
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As Roger stated, 30% is a great return, normal for many varieties is just 20%, that is the rule of thumb, 1 gram of rough equals 1 carat of faceted. Emerald should be a lesser return than normal so having only 70% waste would be very fortunate and would likely not happen. Many included varieties will only return a few percent.
The sellers of rough are not unaware of what they are selling. They are likely cutters and already know what to expect from each piece as every chunk has been already been carefully inspected and rejected by them. Not that each chunk is junk, just it was not interesting enough for them to keep for their own faceting as they get first choice as a dealer. Best regards, Lee

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Lee what if i was buying directly from the mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:51 pm 
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That would be a step closer, even better, however, know that often the miners are highly experienced experts in rough and they get the true first choice, many of them are stone cutters as well.
I like to buy from miners. Without actually working a mine (very hard work) it is as close as we can get. Good luck, Lee

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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:11 am 
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hachiko wrote:
Thank u conny for the prompt reply, what about the second part of thr question about removing the oil completely.


What is the point of remooving oil from a stone that needed a clarity enhancement in order to be sellable???

Emeralds get oiled in order to get them look better... and sellable...
If you remove oil, depending on the level of treatment, they might look rubbish and unsellable...

Remooving oil will not increase the value of an emerald...
What might increase the value would be to recut the stone in order to remove thos surfacing cracks that needed to be filled with oil...
But thi is not allwayse possible and you will loose a lot in size if your target is a stone cut at proper angles...

If you get your own rough faceted by an expert cutter... you should instruct him to go for quality stone... and he will cut at proper angles and he will do his best to remoove all surfacing cracks... if there are no significant cracks getting to the surface there will be no need of any enhancement...
But if you give this instruction be prepared to get a lower yeld...


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:13 am 
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hachiko wrote:
Thank u sir for your kind wishes, ever since i started researching on this project people have been discouraging me, very few have tried to help as u can see on this thread aswell.
Anyways it just makes me more determined and carefull aswell. These r wise people being and giving me safe advice.
I have a question if someone could pl. answer it.
The miners here put baby oil on rough emeralds for 3 to 4 hours, they say it strenthens the stone and helps prevent breaks while cutting.
In bangkok this is a accepted feature and they dont consider it as treated, while in some other parts of the world it is considered treated.
But everybody still wants them. :?
Also if we wash them with lime in luke warm lime water does it show traces of oil in a lab.


They put baby oil in order to get the rough looks better...


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:19 am 
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hachiko wrote:
Lee what if i was buying directly from the mine.


Miners do a selection and this selection is done by experienced cutters...
People selling rough know the yeld you will get from what theysell to you and will price their rough according to guessd yeld...

Miners are not unaware of what they are selling...


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 Post subject: Re: Swat emeralds, Laghman emeralds
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 am 
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Thank u Gianpero, u hit the nail on the head. =D>


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