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 Post subject: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:12 am 
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Dear gem experts

Is it allowed to ask in this forum if a certain online gem seller (ebay) is trustworthy if he states, that his - for example - Morganites are 100% untreated. Probably not a good idea to buy a 50 ct VVS untreated medium color Morganite selling for 2'500 USD on ebay, is it?

Kind regards,

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:02 am 
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This is not a consumer forum and we do not label any vendors as being thrustworthy or not. Make a google search on the vendor is my simple advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Thanks, Conny. Shame. Buying on the web would be such a nice option. Bigger target customer group (for the seller an advantage), better tranparency in pricing, benefits for sellers and buyers... But there is a lot of fraud, that shouldn't be accepted and should be fought by the biggest gem forums. There seem to be a tiny minority of serious dealers on the web, and the majority selling on the web is not trustworthy if it comes to important facts like "untreated". Never mind. Thanks again.

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Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:11 am 
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Actually I do not agree Peter. This is not, as stated before, a consumer forum. Gemologyonline and the Gemology project are here for the sole reason to be a pool of and a platform for exchange of knowledge, targeted towards professionals, knowledgeable amateurs as well as students of the science gemology.

Fraud is a crime and better dealt with by forums dedicated to law and order and at consumer forums.

That internet is a, more or less, unregulated place where almost everything can be bought does not change the fact that it is Caveat Emptor ruling.

There are no shortcuts to do good business with gemstones. All deals with unknown vendors wheter IRL or online have a certain amount of risk. What kind of risk you are prepared to take is up to you, it's your money. Do not spend more than you are prepared to loose. Do not hope to do "the big deal of your life" with a gem dealer on eBay.

If you want to be sure, buy your stones from dealers known in the business, have a reputation of standing behind their goods to 100% and are known to be honest. That kind of gem merchants are still around. Trust goes both ways so to get a good business relation usually takes some time but can then last a lifetime if taken care of.

just my €0,02

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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:01 am 
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Thanks Conny. Of course I see your points. But you guys are the experts and experts are required for the credibility of the whole market. Why not initiate a round table and establishing a label for trustworthy sellers who have to strictly follow certain guidelines, otherwise they wouldn't get the label. Over the years, the whole market (online AND IRL) would benefit by more credibility, more transparency, a clear terminology to compare offerings etc. But presently there's no transparency at all and all players (also the gemmologists) would benefit, if there were: Interest in gems would increase, prices would increase (in some cases decrease), the market would grow (e. i. the market potential would grow, probably not the volume itself).

Is the internet market just not suitable for selling/buying gems?

95% seem to be NOT trustworthy
4% seem to be trustworthy, but maybe are not
1% is trustworthy, but can offer sky-high prices because they're dedicated to 100% natural, untreated gems and a small customer group is willing to pay this +/- 100% markup.

The last 1% should be standard, but without 100% markup. Of course an untreated Aqua has to be more expensive than a heated one, but I don't want to pay a markup just only for the guarantee, that the seller doesn't cheat me. I want to pay for the rareness, but not the elimination of the fraud potential!

If a customer looks for 100% untreated gems, he will be irritated no matter whether he searches online or IRL. Maybe the average gem buyer is not an online buyer and really looks for this "relationship to the seller". Maybe I am not an average gem buyer. But I am sure, that the online market for gems will become more and more important to the younger generation in the future and maybe you experts can contribute to its credibility. This would enliven the total gem market and bring new market potential and business for all.

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:48 am 
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There is no difference if it is a dishonest car dealer or gem merchant. The market puts the dishonest out of business or off to another place by self regulation. I'm sure the market for gemstones will still be here long after I and the generations closest to me are gone. Best way to not getting burned is to learn how to trade, from a mentor or just listen to advice. There are no shortcuts to doing gem business. Maybe it is not for everyone, in the same way as not everyone is fit to be a surgeon or airplane pilot?

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 Post subject: Re: Allowed to ask...?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:28 am 
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vipasso wrote:
Why not initiate a round table and establishing a label for trustworthy sellers who have to strictly follow certain guidelines, otherwise they wouldn't get the label.

Why not, indeed? You or anyone else could attempt to start such an forum, and perhaps it would be a great advantage to buyers. But that is not the purpose of this forum. Would you expect the IEEE to keep a roster of crooked TV repairmen?


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