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 Post subject: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Hi everyone!
I recently purchased a pair of unheated orange sapphires from a respected AGTA wholesale dealer, that shift from a ocher-orange to a vibrant pinky red in certain lights. Would this be classified as a color shifting? The issue I've been having is capturing the change for my client who only has CFL lights. I can only get the orange color at certain time of day too? So it's something that I'm reluctant to call color shifting although I've seen the shift and others have too?

My next question would be the history of the stones is reported as Tanzanian/Songea origins but they don't come with a cert. They look like all the orangey/red sapphires I've ever seen from there but I'm wondering if it would actually hurt their value to have the origin added GIA report?
Thanks for the help.
Liz


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Location: The frozen north prairie :-/
Here we go again! 8)

Time of day can affect the color you see. Those CFLs are a pain in the a$$!! :evil:

Depending on the cost of these stones, I'd get a report from one of the major labs, probably AGL if it was me.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Thanks Barbara!
I bought it for a jeweler client, who has a very particular client.
They couldn't see the orange that I did in Tucson and here in FL.
They are further north and it's still winter there so diffused grey skies too....
They ended up passing on the stones. Now I'm trying to figure out how to market them.

Is it common for Songea sapphires to shift like that?
I know that most of the garnets coming from the Rift Valley exhibit shifting/changing, but I don't usually buy sapphires from there.

I love nature and how it creates such amazing unique pieces of wonderment!


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Location: The frozen north prairie :-/
Whenever I hear "Songea" sapphire, I think BE-treated, so I can't help you much :( .

I'm sure there are plenty of others on the forum who can answer your questions.

Any photos? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:00 am 
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Hi Barbara,
Here is the pictures I have of the pair.
I can't get my camera to capture the orange very well but everyone see it.
I purchased from a very reputable company, which is known for their honesty and knowledge in sapphires.
They had actually purchased a cash of stones from a collector's estate. There were 6 flats of vintage unheated pink, orange and reddish sapphires. They were all small but well priced being that they were songea not truly padparadscha sapphires.
Even my jeweler/gia gg client looked at them under his microscope and saw no evidence of heating.

I only wish everyone could see these in person.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/miele_melograno/sets/72157629654645305/


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:08 am 
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I would get an ID report to identify any treatments the stones have been subjected to.
Send them to AGL.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:31 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
I would get an ID report to identify any treatments the stones have been subjected to.
Send them to AGL.



absolutely.
Maybe i'm wrong but i smell of BE..............
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:44 am 
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I'm smelling it on my side of the planet too.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Sadly, I smell it too.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Liz, if your stones were purchased from an AGTA dealer I think you should first discuss any concerns about treatment directly with them. My understanding is that AGTA members must disclose any treatments according to the procedures outlined here (see the sub-heading AGTA Member Requirements): http://www.hgms.org/FacetingDocuments/AGTA-GIM-1.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:28 pm 
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I can tell you without hesitation they are not BE treated!! I they have a solid reputation! It was purchased at the AGTA show in Tucson and was promptly seen by several other experts including many gg's who vouched for the validity of their product.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:41 pm 
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My concern was not regarding treatment ----- AT ALL. I trust them explicitly since I have had these looked at by several professionals.

My concern if it would hurt the value of them being African rather than Asian sapphires?

I'm not so great at the pricing "game" when it comes to stones I don't import. I work primarily with garnets from Kenya.

I know that you might be suspicious because I'm not mentioning the dealer but I have no interest in bringing another dealer into public discussion without their prior consent.

It is not about their validity. They are a well trusted and long standing member of AGTA. The questions were regarding the value/rarity of color shifting sapphires from Songea. Is is worth getting the GIA report. I know that they don't grade colored stones but perhaps a Gubelin report would be better?

I've re-iterated this to hopefully clarify my question.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:18 pm 
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I think that the responses you received to mentioning a Songea origin for these sapphires should answer at least part of your original question.
In 2001 I purchased a 42 gm parcel of sapphire rough from Tanzania sold as Padparadshah with a Songea provenience. This was just before the BE treated stones hit the market. There was no evidence this parcel was heated before sale. The stones were all small with the biggest ones being 4-4.5cts. The colors range from red to pink and there are some that shift color from pink /red in some light to showing oranges and sometimes a slightly brown orange in other light. Color shift is very common with Songea Sapphires and unfortunately often some of the colors are not that pleasing. There are attractive colors that come from Songea and are not BE treated or heated for that matter but I would suggest you never call them Songea Sapphires, rather Tanzanian Sapphires, because of the very negative reaction the mere mention of the word Songea gets in the gem world
Doug Frey


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 Post subject: Re: Reddish Orange saphire from Tanzania
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:52 pm 
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:lol: =D> Thank you Doug! this is exactly the answer I was looking for! I had heard negative grumbles about Songea sapphire but never knew why, typically I stay away from corundum and emeralds because of treatment issues. Thank you for your advice in the matter.
Liz


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