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 Post subject: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Hi guys and gals...

I've been collecting as a hobby for over a year..and, I now know enough to be very leary about Sapphires/Rubies etc. I try to stay away from them, while focusing on stones like Spinel, Tourmaline, Garnet, Zircon...usually untreated, or just heated (for the most part).

Anyways, I did happen to aquire quite a few Sapphires. They were given to me for a very reasonable price, with the assumption that they may be treated,heated, be-treated, or...not. The seller didn't know, I don't know..but the price was low enough to take a chance as even one or two "heated only" stones would be worth more than what I paid for the lot.

So my question is..what is the next step for someone like me. I have a loupe, a 45x microscope as well. I'd like to find a lab where I can send the lot, but without paying $50 or more per stone, seeing as there are probably 10 stones in the lot. I can't afford that kind of coin especially considering the bulk of these stones may be be-treated. I'd like to think I'm capable of picking out a lab-created stone...if I don't see ANY inclusions...but beyond that? Is there a member on here who would take a look at the stones for me and at least tell me which ones, if any, should be sent to AGL or ?? Or, should I just send them all to a lab in Thailand which will be far, far less expensive? Like Emil, I think they charge $25 per stone. Thats still $250 though...My whole expense for all the stones is under $200, so I took a chance...and maybe I threw $$ away but I'm a bit of a gambler.

What is my best course of action?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:33 pm 
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I haven't heard anything from anybody on here. I was hoping someone would want to take a look at the stones for me (for a fee) and maybe advise me which of the stones I should invest in a certification and where. Without this, I am left with sending the entire parcel to AIGS for $40/ea or $335/10 stones. I am waiting on some clarification from them though, as to what is included. I was told they do not have a machine to test for Be-treated Corrundom yet, but will in July 12. While the "type" of treatment isn't really that important (to me, if its fissure-filled or be-diffused it amounts to the same thing...junk) I would need to know if my stone/stones are simply heated, which is acceptable, or if they are heated AND treated. My confusion lies in whether or not they disclose the stone has been treated beyond heat or if theya re just scoring the stones either "unheated/untreated" or "heated/possibly treated" which to me would be a big BIG waste of money.

AGL wants $55 per stone but they will divulge more info on treatment. I didn't really explore them because of price. I have no problem sending stones for certification to prove what they are, once I know what they are not, lol. But to pay that kind of money on a stone or several stones which may be fissure filled, etc, well..I can't afford that.

I came here because I know that there are people who are well educated and skilled and can take a look at a stone under a microscope/loupe and tell immediately "that stone is junk" or "that stone is worth certification".

If anyone wants to help, or has anyone in mind who can help, please advise..otherwise Im looking at having to bite the bullet and pay crazy money to AIGS which I really don't want to do...

Thanks..


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Hi Chris:

I just have to ask - did you have a game plan in mind when you bought the stones? It would be great if out of the kindness of their heart someone on here would be willing to do you a favor, but it is asking a lot.

Why don't you just send one or two as samples to be tested? How much is an AGL gem brief? If you had the money to purchase the stones, you must've been thinking that down the road you'd have to expend some more for verification purposes, or how else would you be able to prove the quality of the stones and profit from your venture?

Perhaps someone here will be kind enough to take a look, but requests like yours seem pretty frequent...maybe its more appropriate for you to ask someone in your area or who you've dealt with before?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:12 am 
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Good questions Minx..

The first "set" of stones I bought when I had no clue..didn't know treated vs untreated...I got the stones under the assumption they were "natural" and thought I was getting the bargain of a lifetime. lol. A once in a blue moon find. Now I know better..but I still don't know what I have...

The second "set" of stones I bought taking a chance that they some of them may have some value...they were sold to me as "treatment unknown" so I realize there is a good chance some/all of them are "junk" but I was hoping maybe I would catch a break.

I didn't really understand how the "system" worked with the labs. I was hoping to find a lab where I could send out all the stones, and they could take a look and tell me off the bat which ones to invest in a gembrief and which ones not to. Obviously I figured out that is not how it works.

All that being said (keep in mind I am learning as I go) I did find someone willing to help who read my post and I am super grateful for that. I wasn't trying to dump this on someone without paying a fee or anything, but this person said they would help me and I am so amazingly grateful. This way I'll have someone with a lot more expertise than I... separate the "might be good" from the "definately bad" so that I can send the ones with potential to the labs instead of sending them all.

I liked your idea of sending a few of them, but unfortunately, at least with the second set of stones, they were all from different sellers/vendors etc so testing one would have no bearing on the others..at least in that group.

Thanks for the response..and I thank the person helping me GREATLY as you have no idea how happy I am. In my gem collecting, generally speaking, I stick to untreated gems or gems which are untreated in most cases (garnet, spinel,etc) but I have to get these stones figured out!!
Thanks to this board!! Great group of people!


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:56 pm 
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That's great news! I hope it works out and you get at least a few positive surprises. What would you say is the average carat weight of the stones?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Oh, and good luck! Please come back and tell us what you have. Also, if you learn any tricks to identifying treated stones, it would be great if you posted those as well...


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 Post subject: Results are in!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:33 am 
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If anyone was curious what the results were of my 11 or 12 stones that I sent to a GG to have a look...

Sadly, all but 2 of them were either synthetic Corrundum or Synthetic Spinel. The only 2 of them that came out natural (and probably unheated) were unfortunately the two smallest, least 'valued' in my eyes, going by size, appearance, etc. There was one stone that was possibly natural and diffused, but probably synthetic..in either of those two cases, worthless.

I was able to contact the vendor who sold me a parcel with 5 of the stones that were looked at (all of them synthetic) and I was offered a refund. But it really isn't about the money I spent...its the sad state of affairs in the gemstone retail industry. These vendors are preying on buyers who are not educated enough to tell real vs fake, all gems were disclosed as natural Sapphires, the ones I bought early on in my collecting, and the ones purchased by the person who sold me the parcel I took a chance on.

I learned two lessons in all of this. The first one is that gamblers usually lose. I lost, for sure, by taking a chance on buying stones that were not guaranteed to be untreated (although all were stated to come from the ground), not certified, etc. The second lesson is to never buy Corrundum unless you have a certificate from a trusted Lab.

I've been lucky enough to focus my collection on stones that are generally not faked..for example I have a lot of garnet, Tourmaline, Spinel (although I have to check those now and make sure they are not labs!), and zircon. It is just a shame...I mean, what if I never had them checked? I'd have a tray full of lab stones that were worthless...and fi I continued to buy these worthless stones?? It just infuriates me so much!

The two stones that were natural, incidentally, came with certificates, but from a lab I had never heard of, and were dated 1999. I am thankful because I do have about 8 of those stones, from that same vendor, with the same certs, that I now can confirm are probably natural. These stones aren't impressive..pale colors, range from .55-1.15cts and native cuts, etc. So they are nothing of significant value. The ones that were labs were beautiful stones...blues, oranges, pinks, purple/violets...in larger sizes up to 2.5cts or so. They were beautiful stones, too beautiful it seems!!

THANKS for this forum! I would have never known where to find someone to help me...this person didn't charge me a dime...and is a great service to the gemstone enthusiast community! I appreciate this persons time and effort...so so very much.

Ok, I am going to grab my 45x loupe and examine some Spinels. I have to find out what synthetic spinel inclusions look like first though, going to do some research online. Always assumed I was safe with my Spinels :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Chris: Thanks for coming back to share the information here; a lot of others in your shoes wouldn't have bothered. I am sorry but not surprised that it turned out this way.

Good luck in your future collecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
Synthetic stones are not worthless, but when things are misrepresented it is disheartening.

There is a learning curve with any collector. We've all made bad buys.

Take some classes.
Learn how gems are identified and treatments recognized.
Go to Gem Shows to buy. Leave the internet alone for awhile.
Build relationships with trusted dealers.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphires....need advice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 657
Hi Chrissa222, I know that it has been a few months since your concern about collecting sapphires, but I have only just started using this forum, and have just found your question..
I mine sapphires on the Anakie gemfields in central Queensland, Australia; they are also found in the Lava Plains field , in north Queensland, and in parts of New South Wales. We produce a wide colour range, from deep blues, thru to greens, and yellows. "Parti colour" stones are increasingly sought by collectors, as multicolour sapphire cannot yet be made synthetically.
Please don't give up on getting some really nice ones, try asking your search engine for "Australian sapphire", forget ebay and contact some of the miners direct, buy some quality rough, and have a gemcutter in your area cut them, or try a few cut "parti colour" stones, around the 1ct size to get going.
There are great speciman stones available, that are well coloured, but may be flawed, and do not warrant facetting, for very good prices.
Typically, a really nice speciman might only be A$10ct.
Good luck in your search, Barry.


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