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 Post subject: Turquoise - Carat prices?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Hi Appraisers!

2 years ago I made a lucky discovery at a market in Luxor Egypt. It was a rounded piece of turquoise weighing more then 150 grams. It had the deepest turquoise colour I´ve seen so far and I negotiated for it. I bought it for the princely sum of 15 Euros. As I am a rockhound, I was sure that it was natural already. There is even a small possibility that it is a piece originating from the egyptian mines. The colour resembles of what I saw in the paintings in the topmbs of the pharaohs. The crushed the turquoise (And Lapis) to use id as paint back then.

Back in Austria I went to a cutter friend of mine, and when he sawed the piece we were sure its natural - the colour went on inside and furthermore the material was only lightly included (by the means of comparison to other turquoises I saw before).

My friend cutted 4 sets of cabochons, with earrings ring and pendant stones in different shapes.

I have absolutely no idea about the carat prices of turqouises in the market. Can anyone help me with some info? Lets say High end material prices regarding colour?

Didn´t manage to take a picture that is postable yet, have difficulties in catching the true stone colour. If anyone has experience in takeng Turqouise digital pictures, advice will be thankfully taken.


Thank you and greetings from Austria,

Nikolaus

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Hi Nikolaus

Pricing Turquoise is in my eyes not easy , as well has most of the top color material been more then scarce on the market nowadays.
My first question would be has your rough been stabilized or color enhanced?
Any secondary color in the blue?
I am sure some of our North American friends can shed some light of the pricing.


PS:Of Topic: I wouldn't mind to have a go this coming spring and look for some Habachtaler :D ! Any advice Nikolaus?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Regarding the Lot: No, there has been no color enhancement and no treatment (Not even wx) at all. Looking to it in different lighting conditions I just see a pure deeply saturated turquoise - the colour that was baptised after the stone....


Regarding emerald collecting: Would be glad to show you around next spring so just pm me in early april or so, to check out the date (depends on snow melting conditions). Til then just read the Habachtal thread and train your eyesin finding green sparkles and flashes ... :wink:

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 Post subject: Turquoise pictures
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:36 am 
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Those Cabs are really hard to catch in a digital photo. Never before I tried so hard (and failed) to take accurate pictures of the colour. These pics, I know they are all but perfect, are the best ones in terms of colour I can get. I just took out a few stones from the lot and tried my best.


Pear Shape Cabs, center piece 10,80 cts

Image

Triangular Cabs, center up piece 11,25 cts

Image


Oval Cab 19,20 cts

Image

Same stone upside down to see body colour without polish

Image

All stones untreated and unwaxed. Pedigree: probably AfPak, maybe Egyptian. Need advice on wholesale carat price for such material please!

Thank you!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Olivier, you going to the Habachtal this spring/summer? Count me in!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:54 pm 
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I don't know about pricing, but that's some very attractive turquoise. :) I know there are some people who prefer it pure blue, but I enjoy the black veins to give it some "personality".


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:29 pm 
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I am under the impression that to get top prices you need to have it checked by a lab. Then you have something marketable as there is so much treated stone on the market.

Here's a link that says prices range from $1 to $300 per carat -

http://www.durangosilver.com/turquoisegrades.htm

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:09 pm 
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hi empress

This is an interesting site :lol: they have turquoise for sale .. but even when you hit the purchase button no price is shown .. kind or makes you wonder .. if you were ah .. (can't thing of a good word here) to purchase some you could get quite a surprise when you monthly statement arrived in the mail :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Hmm - I see prices on their site - and they translated when I pushed purchase...don't know what to say - that was under cabochons...maybe they were out of what you clicked :?:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:17 pm 
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could be empress .. didn't check the finished good ... was checking the rough for sale section .. no prices in sight *shrug*

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:17 am 
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Nikolaus,

Though you seem to be sure this is not treated with all respect I'd be very surprised if it is natural natural.

Already in the 50s untreated turquoise was a rarity.

It took me years to find some certified untreated pieces. And the price you got there, my god, that'd be a lotto win.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:14 pm 
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Edward,

I was not aware of untreated turquoise beeing that scarce in the market, since I never had one in my inventory before. I knew that there are a lot of synthetics, treatments out there, but I did´nt go to a gemlab with the pieces, because I thought that it would be too costly in comparison to the gems price. That I thought regarding to the cheapness of turquoises sold all over the market, algthough they are tresated mass matrerial. Your statement makes me change my mind... Actually I already felt like a lotto winner when the cutter sawed the piece in half. Also a carat price of up to 300 Dollars was way higher than I expected. I am really definitely sure it´s natural natural, since I know the rough, guarded the cutting. Unfortunately I didnt take a picture of the rough. I plan to sell that lot all together and am now looking for a gemlab wioth a good deal for a appraisal of the whole lot.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Let us know the results of the lab tests later on.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Nikolaus Lackner wrote:
Edward,

I was not aware of untreated turquoise beeing that scarce in the market.


There's plenty of untreated turquoise available, at least here in the U.S. But the question of what constitutes high quality in turquoise is at least as complex as judging quality in jade or precious opal.

There's a preponderance of treated turquoise on the market because of a consumer notion that all turquoise should be cheap and deep blue. Top end untreated turquoise is never cheap and it can be very expensive without being colored the saturated cerulean blue of the consumer stereotype. There's a lot to know about the turquoise market, at least in the U.S.

During the big American turquoise revival in the 60s-70s treaters quickly learned they could meet demand for "cheap and blue" by infusing porous, abundant "chalk" turquoise with epoxies and sometimes blue dyes. They sometimes sold outright frauds like dyed howlite.

The newer Zachery process is very sophisticated and hard to detect but it's only effective with medium grades of turquoise, not chalk. It uses neither epoxy binders or dyes. See: E. Fritsch, S.F. McClure, M. Ostrooumov, Y. Andres, ,T. Moses, J.I. Koivula and R.C. Kammerling. The identification of Zachery-treated turquoise. Gems & Gemology, 1999, vol. 35, pp. 4-16.

Meanwhile quantities of fine un-mined turquoise repose underground because uneducated buyers spend their money on the cheap stuff. I know a couple of turquoise mine owners in Nevada whose costs of digging are far greater than any currently possible return on their natural, quality product.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Hi Nikolaus

I would suggest to send the stones to an American Lab since i would think that you would get a higher valuation there than here in Europe .
As well i think the market for you to sell that stuff is in North America.

If you want to ease your mind if the rough has been stabelized, weigh the stone, note the weight, then submerge the stone for a while in water and weigh again .
A natural untreated stone will soak up some liquid and will be heavier after the bath :) stabelized/impregnated stuff will generally not absorb and stay the same weight but you probably know that already.

all the best


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